How great was Peintre Celebre ?
- #1In Sea Bird class?
- #2In Dancing Brave class ?
- Deserved a 140 timeform rating
- Not an all-time great?
- An all-time great?
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Today is the 25th anniversary of racehorses Peintre Celebre’s scintillating win in the Prix de l”Arc De Triomphe.It was arguably the most authoritative or convincing Arc win after the great Sea Bird in 1965.The colt simply swept home like an eagle flying conquering one of the strongest fields ever.
It sparsely raced as a 2 year old.At 3 it registered a convincing win in the French Derby or Prix de Jockey Club and the Grand Prix de Paris.In the French Derby he displayed a striking turn of foot in the final furlong ,from a precarious position when he literally looked down and out.
In a trial race before the Arc De Triomphe in the Prix Niel, ,jockey riding tactics of Cash Asmussen which locked PeIntre Celebre on the rails,cost him the race.The race was virtuall stage manged for Peintre Celebre to lose.
In the Prix de L’Arc De Triomphe Peintre Celebre displayed dazzling acceleration in regions rarely transcended,conquering great horses like previous year’s winner Helisio ,Pilsudski and dual King George winner Swain.After penetrating the gap he simply devoured his rivals.The strongest Arc field after Sea Bird in 1965 and Dancing Brave in 1986 was ground to dust.The manner the colt swooped away from his rivals was manifestation of what made a truly great thoroughbred racehorse.His strides literally resembled an invincible emperor that day.Racing aestheticism was taken to a zenith by the colt,which could be preserve in a Horse racing museum.
Arguably Peintre Celebre was in the class of a Mill Reef ,Dancing Brave or Sea of Stars.Jockey Lester Piggot rated it amongst the finest colts of his era.Maybe his timeform ranking underestimated his true merit,if one asesses thec lass of his opponents and merciless demolition of them.On the Arc day he resurrected the great Sea Bird perhaps more than nay racehorses.To me deserved a 140 timeform ranking.
Peintre Celebre, who won his Arc by five lengths, breaking the track record by 3.4 seconds in the process, was a very good colt.
But breaking track records is often a mere function of how Firm the ground is and times from different years are no guide as to relative merit as every renewal is conducted on a different surface.
Facts – he won one Arc, eight other horses won it twice; his Timeform rating of 137 was below that of Sea Bird (145), Ribot (142), Dancing Brave (140) and Sea The Stars (140); he won by five lengths – Ribot, Sea Bird and Sakhee won by six.
For all that, I’d say he certainly beat a stronger field than Sea The Stars did, though whether they all ran to form that day is debateable.
Finally, Peter O’Sullevan’s commentary made me wistful and nostalgic.
Note Helissio being referred to as the past “winner,” none of this cliched rubbish about “defending his crown” or being a “defending champion” which infests and pollutes modern media racing parlance to the detriment of the grand theatre and gravitas of the game.
Words, as well as horses, carried weight back then.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Breaking track records is often a mere function of how Firm the ground is.”
I don’t understand. A top class Flat race was run on firm ground?
I think they should have put at least an inch of water on the track to stop that from happening.
I know, CAS.
And at Longchamp too, a track that nowadays manages to deliver testing ground despite one of the hottest summers on record in Europe.
Modern-day, tap happy, British Clerks Of Courses must envy the Parisians so much.
Fast ground, cliche-free commentary, this thread and clip has made me feel very nostalgic – and very old!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Don’t forget they did put 5mm of water on the track this year. An inexplicable decision which might have attracted more comment but for Mr Soumillon’s antics.
“Fast ground, cliche-free commentary, this thread and clip has made me feel very nostalgic.”
And seeing the Wildenstein silks again. OK, they were not the easiest people to like but their colours were carried by some top notch horses. Another set of once familiar colours that have disappeared from the game.
I put him in the Harbinger category, one jaw dropping performance but overall not an all time great. (Note: I mistakenly clicked on all time great option for the vote
doh)You can even poke a few holes in that field he beat in that Arc: –
7th: Swain was arguably a better horse the following year when 2nd in the Dubai World Cup before winning the King George and Irish Champion Stakes before finishing 3rd in the Breeeder Cup Classic.
6th: Helissio although he won the Ganay & Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, he wasn’t quite as good at 4 as he was at 3 when winning Lupin, Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, Prix Niel & Arc before finishing 3rd in the Japan Cup.
5th: Predappio beat Pilsudski in the G2 Hardwicke early that year but after the Arc was beaten a combined 53L in his final two races.
4th: Oscar Schindler also won a Hardwicke but was better known as a stayer being a 2 time Irish St Leger winner over 14F.
3rd: Borgia whilst next time out he inished 2nd in Breeders Cup Turf, he ran a further 11 times subsequently winning only once in the G2 Hong Kong Vase but failed to place in any of the other 7 G1s he contested, including being beaten twice as far in the following year’s Arc by Montjeu on his favoured much softer ground.
2nd: Pilsudski really was the one who upheld the form winning the Champion Stakes & Japan Cup on his final two starts but don’t forget that he had already been beaten that season by Helissio (Ganay), Predappio (Hardwicke) and Swain (King George) in the lead up to the Arc.
Overall when I look at his Timeform rating of 137, it doesn’t shout out to me that they got it wrong and he clearly should be on 140.
On the subject of ratings of the greats – I feel nowadays that if Timeform believe an animal is capable of hitting the 140 mark, they will do their best to apply an intepretation of a piece of form to raise the horse to this magical mark. Sea The Stars, being an animal who would win professionally in the sense that he would always leave the impression that there was more left in the tank if needed, was never going to flatter himself on the weights and measures ratings front. Timeform got him up to 140 on interpreting that in the Irish Champion Stakes, Mastercrafsman, who was beaten five lengths, ran only marginally below the level of his York performance when beaten a length.
I’m sure if Nijinsky’s career happened now they’d interpret the King George victory to move him up from his 138 into the 140’s applying the same subjective logic that they ‘ just know’ he’s a 140 + horse.
“I put him in the Harbinger category, one jaw dropping performance but overall not an all time great.”
Completely agree with LD73 here. One sensational performance but not a great on the overall balance of his form.
The same applies, incidentally, to Helissio, whose romp in the 1996 Arc was equally spectacular.
doh)
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