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Grand National 2018

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  • #1349002
    Avatar photopeter .h
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1716

    I’ve decided to commit to Rathvinden as I can see the price cutting at the 5 day mark. 20’s EW and 94’s on the Exchange will do me just fine as a saver.

    With the potential of a soft or worse National on our hands I’m just starting to cool on Saint Are who needs real spring ground. Lord Windermere is another i’m beginning to go off slightly. I don’t like light campaigns in a National horse and one run (an uncompleted run at that) is simply not enough and with Leighton Aspel off injured he’s slowly losing the boxes he had ticked before. I’m already on at 112’s and 50’s EW, but am not likely to top up on the day, unlike some of my other bets.

    If it comes up soft or worse on the day i’ll be adding Maggio who is crying out for this trip and could have good place potential.

    I will take this time to state my case for Houblon Des Obeaux. His form figures don’t look outstanding and some might suggest he is regressing. However what I’ve seen this season is a horse being run over trips at least half a mile shorter than his best. He’s run six times this season which might look a lot on paper, but none of them are what I would call ‘hard’ races. Competitive? Yes, some. But hard? I wouldn’t say so. In fact I’d say he’s had a comparatively softer season than last year where he ran only four times, but each one being long distance mudfests where he carried near enough top weight each time. Something he won’t be doing here.

    Four of his six runs this season have been over 3 miles which has seen him outpaced each time before staying on strongest at the finish. His win in November was certainly reassuring, but the most promising of these runs was his third at Hereford in January. Perhaps not the strongest of races, but the way he finished that day was what really stuck with me. He was carrying 12-1 that day and was giving 13lbs to the winner who only had 2 1/4 lengths on him at the line. The handicapper put him up 2lbs for that, which may be a blessing as he may have struggled to get in otherwise. To my blatantly biased eye; it’s runs like these that show he still have a taste for the game.

    His two runs over more suitable trips saw him finish 6th and pulled up, however excuses can be made for both occasions. Ground conditions were against him in the Classic Chase where he again finished with a wet sail and his Eider run can have a line put through as simply an off day, something every horse is entitled to.

    Lastly his run in last years race was much better than his finishing position suggests. The ground was far, far too lively for him and he wasn’t given the most enterprising ride; held up throughout before storming home after the last. His best runs have come from being prominent and keeping out of trouble. Charlie Deutsch simply didn’t ride him to his best effect. In more suitable, softer (perhaps not heavy) conditions and with a more positive ride; I simply can’t see anything but a big run from a horse who has had Grand National written all over him since his United House Gold Cup win… a race he won off the same mark that he has in this! :yahoo:

    I’m convincing myself more than I am anyone else, but there are far worse outsiders in this and his trainer knows how to send out soft ground marathon winners and is very experienced in sending out 100/1 winners of this race! :whistle:

    Love this boy.

    #1349026
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Always had a soft spot for him Peter, and I’ve had my moments with him. I’d agree, wouldn’t be in a rush to write him off either. Don’t think I’ll be adding him myself, but if I can’t have the winner, would love to see him do it.

    #1349032
    Red Rum 77
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    • Total Posts 4814

    Posted in wrong topic :whistle:

    The best things in life are free.
    But you can give them to the birds and bees.

    #1349036
    atthepost
    Participant
    • Total Posts 238

    Good Point about Genie in abottles form in big fields SC, that is a negative, but 80s NRNB is worth a punt. There is a chance he wont go to Aintree.

    REGAL ENCORE @ 33/1 is also one i like, but will wait the ground to dry out before backing him

    #1349045
    Avatar photoJAMIEDB9007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 340

    Although an old favourite of mine, I can’t get away from Road To Riches. Of course his form has completely tailed off the past couple of seasons, but due to this has absolutely plummeted in the weights. Off 142, a step up in trip, the novelty of Aintree, Meade in decent form, all of this could spark a revival and at 66/1 nrnb 5 places is well worth a tenner each way, maybe more if it starts to dry out a bit. Instead of carrying the usual 11’10 in grade 1’s he will be carrying 10’4 over the furthest he’s been, all in all I think it’s worth a speculative punt.

    #1349069
    Avatar photoBigG
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    • Total Posts 13286

    I think you are right to be concerned Nausered. There is rain today and later this week, and whilst,
    as you mentioned Mike, it’s to be better next week they still have some midweek. Looking at Turftrax
    to see the state of the ground anywhere nearby, the 2 closest this week are Catterick (admittedly over
    100 miles) where the ground is heavy and waterlogged in places, and Wetherby (under 100 miles) who have
    had to cancel their meeting on Friday due to flooding. I know They are more central whereas Aintree is
    on the west coast, but in general everywhere seems to be heavy in general. From what I can gather I
    understand that Aintree is generally heavy at the moment. The National is only 10 days away and even
    with the rain forecast I can’t see how it is going to be better than heavy, if there is more rain than
    they forecast (although that never happens :whistle: ) it is going to be very testing. Quite a few have mentioned they don’t want more rain and others that their horses want decent good spring ground.

    I think there is a fair chance that many could be withdrawn because of conditions, which wouldn’t do
    one of mine, Mysteree, any harm as he needs 20 to come out and bottomless ground would boost his chances.

    Is there anyone down that way that can give any update :unsure:

    #1349074
    Avatar photoKevMc
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    • Total Posts 1326

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2018/apr/04/talking-horses-aintree-hoping-to-avoid-a-mudbath-grand-national

    There’s a lot more rain about than this article states but the current ground doesn’t sound too bad although i do take this with a pinch of salt as Aintree won’t want to alarm people too early.

    #1349083
    Avatar photoBigG
    Participant
    • Total Posts 13286

    I hadn’t seen that article Kev, it gives a more upbeat view from the Clerk of The Course,
    but I seem to recall Cheltenham giving similar assurances before the festival. Personally
    I’d be surprised if it turns out to be better than heavy/soft in places. Fontwell is the only
    turf meeting to survive (at this point) before Saturday, and on Saturday both Kelso and
    Uttoxeter are heavy. Could be a bit of wishful thinking by the COTC.

    #1349123
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Go Conquer has to be another doubt for this, and he can be bet at 200’s just now.

    #1349140
    wasps41
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1161

    A couple of dry days in a row and it can soon swing round at this time of year. Met office forecast for next 7 days is 6 dry days with a fair amount of rain dropping on Sat. I think at worst it will be soft dependant on what Thurs and Fri of next week looks like

    #1349153
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 6114

    Bobby, Jonjo says Go Conquer misses this for the Topham

    #1349164
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Cheers Joe, thought so.

    I might have bet him for The National, but this looks the right decision, and he now looks seriously overpriced now for The Topham.

    #1349168
    Avatar photoCharlesOlney
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2031

    William Hill’s offering of 44/1 about Pleasant Company was good enough to delve into as my first cash bet in the race.

    I still can’t shake the fact that he was traveling supremely well before belting Valentine’s second time around and putting pay to any chance he had. He was sent off a well backed 11/1 shot for this last year and Mullins seemed keen to plot a light campaign with the idea of coming back for another go. He’s in off a lighter rating and weight this year and still a 10 year old is prime National age.

    Up to two now.

    Pleasant Company 44/1 (William Hill)
    Regal Encore 33/1 (2x Free bets from Bet365)

    Obviously this list will grow a darn site more come next Friday night!

    #1349226
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 6114

    Fresh from my blog:

    This is my third tip (so far) for the Randox Health Grand National on April 14th. As De Mee, my first, has been withdrawn, injured; hopefully most readers took the 50/1 NRNB that one.

    Milansbar, tip number two, now looks as though he will definitely get in the race with Bryony Frost riding and should go off much shorter than the advised 50/1. Looking through the field again today for more value, I see one who looks potentially overpriced by some way – Virgilio, Dan Skelton’s horse – who’s available at 100/1 NRNB (non runner, no bet).

    Most potential National bets are prominent in the minds of punters; horses like Saint Are and The Last Samuri who have run well there in the past. Or classier types like Minella Rocco or Blaklion. Most punters will not have heard of Virgilio; indeed, it was only when he caught my eye with his weight of 10.7 and his good trainer that I dived a bit more deeply into his form.

    Skelton appears to have held the horse in pretty high regard when Virgilio was younger (he’s 9).  He won his first two races in Britain (Skelton has had him since the horse came from France), the first a Class 3 handicap by 12 lengths, and the second, a Class 2 Handicap (at Aintree) by 6 lengths (fav both times).  He started the next season with his hat-trick win, again at Aintree in another Class 2 Handicap before moving up to Grade 2 in the Relkeel at Cheltenham where he started 5/1 third fav but was pulled up, the trainer citing a breathing problem (Skelton was later to say the horse would not go back to Cheltenham as it was not his track).

    Virgilio then dropped back into handicap company at Aintree, carrying joint top weight of 11.12 off a handicap mark of 148 to finish 5th of 22, keeping on toward the finish. Since then, he has not run again over hurdles. Virgilio finished that 2015/16 season by making his debut over fences, easily winning a Class 4 at Warwick by 13 lengths and he began the following season with a Class 2 victory at Newton Abbott.

    Returning to Grade 2 company for the first time since the Relkeel, he was 7/4 and was pulled up in the three-horse Rising Stars Novices Chase won by Frodon. The Racing Post analyst simply says that the horse ran as if amiss (it was his first run right handed in Britain). The Skeltons kept the faith with another Grade 2 run at Newbury next time where Virgilio made a couple of crucial errors, although he would not have beaten the impressive winner Clan Des Obeaux.

    Next time saw him back right handed at Kempton where he finished a fortunate second in the Kauto Star the day Might Bite fell when well clear at the last.  He challenged Might Bite again next time in his first Grade 1 outing, the Mildmay Novices Chase at Aintree where he was well beaten in 3rd, although he had a very stiff task at levels with Might Bite and Whisper who was second. Might Bite beat him 20 lengths and Whisper beat him 18.

    Virgilio finished last season with yet another run at Aintree, and another win over 3m 1f, by 7 lengths, his jumping that day suggesting he was really getting the hang of the chasing game.  North to Aintree again in November last year for his seasonal debut and back down in trip to 2m 4f, he ran quite poorly and then pulled up 5 weeks’ later at Doncaster back over 3 miles. He was strong in the market that day in December; in the lengthy lay off since then, Virgilio has had wind surgery

    On the face of his limited fencing experience, especially in big fields, and his form this season, I can see why 100/1 is available. But in view of his age and what still looks untapped potential, allied to the faith the Skeltons appear to have in him, and the fact that he’s been operated on for his wind, I think he’s well worth an each way bet on the NRNB basis. There’s also the fact that the flat track seems to suit him well; he’s won 3 from 6 at Aintree (NB: for those who are occasional punters, Aintree’s Grand National course is a separate one from its ‘standard’ course which is known as The Mildmay Course, the one on which Virgilio has appeared so far).

    His jumping style, to my eye, looks well suited to the Grand National fences. Stamina is another question. He’s by Denham Red, the sire of Un De Sceaux, a 16f to 20f top-notcher, but also the sire of Ouzbeck, who won the Summer National over 3m 4f at Uttoxeter in 2010.  As noted, Virgilio has won over 3m 1f; the only other winning progeny of his dam Liesse De Marbeuf, did not race over as far as 3 miles in Britain or Ireland.

    “Recommended bet”: each way Virgilio for the Randox Health Grand National at 100/1 with Bet Bet365 who offer 1/4 odds first five and money back if the horse does not run.

    #1349234
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 6114

    A Genie in a Bottle found dead:

    A horse who was being aimed at next week’s Grand National was found dead in his box on Friday, the apparent result of a mystery illness that had been affecting him in recent days. A Genie In Abottle, who won two races this season for his trainer, Noel Meade, had been a general 50-1 shot for the Aintree race.

    “We’d been a bit worried about him but the vets couldn’t find out what was wrong with him,” Meade said from his yard in County Meath, north of Dublin. “It was obviously very serious because we found him on the floor of his box this afternoon.”

    A tough stayer who started favourite for the National Hunt Chase at last year’s Cheltenham Festival, A Genie In Abottle was good enough to beat Tiger Roll in a Listed steeplechase in the autumn. He was last seen when second to Bellshill at Fairyhouse in February.

    Meade is now likely to run Road To Riches in the National, as the veteran seems likely to make the final cut of 40 runners. Sean Flanagan will ride the 11-year-old, who was third to Coneygree in the 2015 Cheltenham Gold Cup.

    The Guardian

    #1349237
    greenasgrass
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    • Total Posts 7655

    Poor horse, I hope he didn’t suffer too much. Although if he was found dead in the afternoon hopefully it meant he went down quickly without much of a struggle. RIP Genie.

    #1349263
    Avatar photoMiddle_Of_March
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    • Total Posts 2833

    RIP

    Can see why you like Virgilio Steeplechasing. Looks to be one where we haven’t quite seen his best yet.

    With my small bet back NRNB on Agenieinabottle, I’ve topped up Anibale Fly. The latter is also in a double with current Masters Leader Patrick Reed which would certainly make next week interesting.

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