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I think people are biased towards Capri as it’s an O’Brien horse. People just love O’Brien.
if it was a Leger winner trained by say, Mick Channon, people wouldn’t care less that it was easily beaten.
I reckon it was lucky to win the Irish derby and if it ran against Cracksman now it would get lapped.
Or maybe I’m just embittered as it beat my Stoutey horse Crystal Ocean in the St Leger 😥
I’m not a great fan of the O’Brien set up judge, I respect him and admire the fact that he has 21 Group One races to his name this year but I am always trying to take him on and in most cases to my disadvantage.
I did Stradivarius in the Leger 3rd to Capri but I was very impressed with the way he won the race he is a lovely geniune horse and that was not his race yesterday.
Coolmore use a lot of smoke and mirrors tactics in their races, because they can.
When US Navy Flag won The Phoenix at Newmarket on Saturday Ryan Moore chose to ride Sioux Nation, he must have known SN wouldn’t go on the ground but hey the race went to the Smith, Tabor, Magnier team with the second at 25/1..nice forecast too.
Sioux Nation could only finish 6th to US Navy Flag who he had beaten last time out at the Curragh on good to firm ground. US Navy Flag has won all his races on soft ground and Sioux Nation on nothing softer than good, the money came because Ryan Moore was on his back.
Anyway my point is don’t write Capri off until he runs another race which I hope will be the Qipco Long Distance. I’m not defending O’Brien I’m defending Capri it’s the first time he’s run such a bad race and he gave his all in the St. Leger. If Mick Channon had been lucky enough to have had a Leger winner this year I doubt he would have run it in the Arc. Capri has been highly tried over all distances and I think he has more to give… Jac
jeez get off the fence. Capri is a nothing special horse, who was lucky to win two classics. The only reason this forum is obsessed by him is because of O’brien, end of.
Im not here often but i hope is not like that other place which is ballydoyle obsessed. Capri was just one runner in this race that hadnt shown a fraction of the brilliance of Enable.
Its like having a premiership forum that talks about nothing other than West Bromwich Albion
Quick trivia question.
How many St Leger winners won the Arc the same season?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
can’t think of any, though I always thought that Alleged SHOULD have won the St Leger
Quick trivia question.
How many St Leger winners won the Arc the same season?
Ballymoss won the St Leger in 57 with Tommy Burns Jocked up, and the Arc in 58
ridden by the great Scobie Breasley
Not the same year Steve, but as near as I can get.Not answering the question but never lose an opportunity to mention the amazing Kingston Hill. Leger winner and 4th in the Arc 3 lengths back from the great Treve and was drawn in stall 20, out in the car park. What a run!
St Leger is often a gruelling race and therefore for many horses it comes too close to the Arc.
Some Arcs (like Sunday’s) are run at a slow or only fair pace; favouring the 10 to 12f horses instead of the 12f+.
St Leger usually needs a performance around 8 or 10 lbs inferior to an Arc and (as said) there’s not much time between the races to show that kind of improvement. So most St Leger winners won’t be good enough and stands to reason races like the Derby, King George and Irish Champion are going to have better records at producing Arc winners.
However, not many St Leger winners have tried and on average the Arc is the best 12f race in the World. Only St Leger winner good enough to win a good Arc was Reference Point and he disappointed in France. They are likely to be outsiders and some have gone close. User Freindly for one. When there is a good pace then stamina horses have won the Arc – they just haven’t come from that race. It’s likely to be only a matter of time before one does win and it’s likely to be at a massive price.
No British or Irish three year old filly had ever won the Arc, stats are made to be broken.
Value Is EverythingI think people are biased towards Capri as it’s an O’Brien horse. People just love O’Brien.
if it was a Leger winner trained by say, Mick Channon, people wouldn’t care less that it was easily beaten.
I reckon it was lucky to win the Irish derby and if it ran against Cracksman now it would get lapped.
Or maybe I’m just embittered as it beat my Stoutey horse Crystal Ocean in the St Leger 😥
I’m not a great fan of the O’Brien set up judge, I respect him and admire the fact that he has 21 Group One races to his name this year but I am always trying to take him on and in most cases to my disadvantage.
I did Stradivarius in the Leger 3rd to Capri but I was very impressed with the way he won the race he is a lovely geniune horse and that was not his race yesterday.
Coolmore use a lot of smoke and mirrors tactics in their races, because they can.
When US Navy Flag won The Phoenix at Newmarket on Saturday Ryan Moore chose to ride Sioux Nation, he must have known SN wouldn’t go on the ground but hey the race went to the Smith, Tabor, Magnier team with the second at 25/1..nice forecast too.Sioux Nation could only finish 6th to US Navy Flag who he had beaten last time out at the Curragh on good to firm ground. US Navy Flag has won all his races on soft ground and Sioux Nation on nothing softer than good, the money came because Ryan Moore was on his back.
Anyway my point is don’t write Capri off until he runs another race which I hope will be the Qipco Long Distance. I’m not defending O’Brien I’m defending Capri it’s the first time he’s run such a bad race and he gave his all in the St. Leger. If Mick Channon had been lucky enough to have had a Leger winner this year I doubt he would have run it in the Arc. Capri has been highly tried over all distances and I think he has more to give… Jac
jeez get off the fence. Capri is a nothing special horse, who was lucky to win two classics. The only reason this forum is obsessed by him is because of O’brien, end of.
I think you’re being a wee bit harsh there judge. I don’t think Jac is sitting on the fence, and made
it pretty clear she is not a great fan of O’Brien, taking him on at every turn whilst acknowledging
you have to take your hat off to him winning 21 Group 1s this year. I think you know me well enough to
know It’s not too often I back one of his, I’m not a favourite backer and most of his are. I put up
Capri before the Derby because I admired his guts, you knew he was going to give his all and I thought
he was better than the bare form suggested. His neck 3rd in the Derby Trial Stakes before the Derby
screamed out he needed further. I thought the 25/1 I took was decent value, he didn’t win
or place but ran a good race in 6th, less than 4 lengths behind Wings Of Eagles. I got my money back,
and more, in the Irish Derby where again he showed how gutsy he was. Again in the Leger he toughed it
out and won, fair and square to my mind. So is he up there with the likes of such as Enable, Treve or
Sea The Stars…. to be blunt, no. I think, and it’s just my opinion, that he’s a very decent horse
that has won some of his races because of his will to get, or keep his head in front. He’s the kind
of horse I like, he’s maybe not breathtaking, but he is tough and has a will to win. The Arc wasn’t
run to suit him, and that’s already been highlighted on here, and I think the season had likely caught
up with him in any case. I’m well aware that I am very much at odds with some on here, I’ve no problem
with that, but I think he deserves a bit of credit for what he’s done.A lot of people are accused of going ott on aiden obriens horses. Are we not in danger of going ott over enable. She beat Ulysses by a lot less than in the king george and on ground that suited her but clearly didn’t suit Ulysses who is probably a ten furlong horse. Also she beat order of St george by just over a length more than found did last year. She obviously is a tremendous filly but it was a very poor arc and hopefully the likes of happily and saxon warrior progress to be top class and we get a proper race next year. All about opinions but the performance of the day on Sunday was bataash who was awesome in the abbey.
BTW I don’t know where people get this capri was lucky to win his two classics. He was clearly the best horse in the leger and he was headed in the Irish Derby but went on again to win and was really travelling at the end of the race. I don’t know if he will make into a top 4yo but I hope he gets the chance and mops up group ones like Highland reel but maybe on softer ground.
A lot of people are accused of going ott on aiden obriens horses. Are we not in danger of going ott over enable. She beat Ulysses by a lot less than in the king george and on ground that suited her but clearly didn’t suit Ulysses who is probably a ten furlong horse. Also she beat order of St george by just over a length more than found did last year. She obviously is a tremendous filly but it was a very poor arc and hopefully the likes of happily and saxon warrior progress to be top class and we get a proper race next year. All about opinions but the performance of the day on Sunday was bataash who was awesome in the abbey.
She obviously is a tremendous filly but it was a very poor arc
Very poor arc seems an exaggeration.
I notice you couldn’t wait to mention two O’brien horses as her main dangers next season. Which rather proves my point? Another poster obsessed with Ballydoyle.
My guess is if she was trained by O’brien you’d be waxing lyrical about her. Surely at this point Cracksman is a far bigger danger than Saxon Warrior and Happily.
A lot of people are accused of going ott on aiden obriens horses. Are we not in danger of going ott over enable. She beat Ulysses by a lot less than in the king george and on ground that suited her but clearly didn’t suit Ulysses who is probably a ten furlong horse. Also she beat order of St george by just over a length more than found did last year. She obviously is a tremendous filly but it was a very poor arc and hopefully the likes of happily and saxon warrior progress to be top class and we get a proper race next year. All about opinions but the performance of the day on Sunday was bataash who was awesome in the abbey.
Cant have that at all
She won as she liked. The actual distance when its such a clear margin is neither here nor there
The choice of who might be good next season is pure guesswork so if choosing the two I did is being obsessed then your entitled to your opinion as am I. Are you not just proving that a lot of people dislike obrien just because he and coolmore are so successful. The form lines are there for all to see and shows enable to be just over a length better than found who I believe was rated 6 pounds inferior to golden horn by timeform. Nothing to do whether I’m a big fan of obrien or not. Surely bataashs win must be far higher rated than enables.
I’d lean towards Mickey’s summary of the result. Enable won assertively but not emphatically. Unlike the runner-up and the third, she was perfectly positioned on a course with an enormous bias towards prominently-ridden horses.
She’s a very good horse but by no means a certainty for next year on a fairer track when forced to concede weight to the three-year-olds.
What nonsense. If the wfa was such a disadvantage then clearly older horses would rarely take the race
I reckon her style of running would be better suited to lomgchamp anyway
Lots of differing opinions. One thing to consider is why so many fillies,especially 3yos have won so many recent arcs. The wfa may well be too much skewed in their favour.
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