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I find the critique of capri nonsensical. Good judges have said it was the best leger for years. Capris season caught up with him. It’s happened to many good horses. He’ll be back and I would expect him to go for the likes of the Irish leger and the long distance cup. I think the lads will let oosg have a crack at the Melbourne cup provided he’s in form and the weight isn’t excessive.
Well done BigG, a lovely each way for you there, and certainly not for the first time either.
Cheers buckers, I was happy enough with the 33s I took a while back, but when Ladbrokes
stuck their head out with 40s I couldn’t turn that down either. It was a good day for me,
and a few others in here who spotted his value
I think people are biased towards Capri as it’s an O’Brien horse. People just love O’Brien.
if it was a Leger winner trained by say, Mick Channon, people wouldn’t care less that it was easily beaten.
I reckon it was lucky to win the Irish derby and if it ran against Cracksman now it would get lapped.
Or maybe I’m just embittered as it beat my Stoutey horse Crystal Ocean in the St Leger
Btw Expert Eye, 33-1, bookies shouldn’t even put that up on the list. Very crafty by them and devious as plenty of naive punters will be backing him not realising that he won’t get home over 1 mile 4 in a horse box.
Shes a staggeringly good filly. I was surprised anyone could imagine taking her on. There was no chink in the armour or formbook.
She was in the best hands in the business IMO and it was just the perfect type of race for her
Agree about Channon and Capri.. Judge.
Shes a staggeringly good filly. I was surprised anyone could imagine taking her on. There was no chink in the armour or formbook.
She was in the best hands in the business IMO and it was just the perfect type of race for her
Agree about Channon and Capri.. Judge.
I don’t disagree with you Clive, she was the best in the field and barring a bad or
unlucky ride she was most certainly the very likely winner. I said as much in my
original post earlier in this thread, but I put up CLOTH OF STARS. It was simply the
odds that made ENABLE a no bet for me. The Arc, as everyone in here is well aware, can be
a tough battle of a race and things don’t always go to plan. As it happens, Dettori rode
the perfect race and never put her in the position of being an unlucky loser. Odds on
in the Arc is never going to attract me, no matter how much I think it’s a steering job.
It was the value aspect of CLOTH OF STARS that made me put him up, and at 33s and 40s
she made a much better return in 2nd than the same money on Enable. But I do take your
point where someone thought she would get turned over, she was simply stunning I think people are biased towards Capri as it’s an O’Brien horse. People just love O’Brien.
if it was a Leger winner trained by say, Mick Channon, people wouldn’t care less that it was easily beaten.
I reckon it was lucky to win the Irish derby and if it ran against Cracksman now it would get lapped.
Or maybe I’m just embittered as it beat my Stoutey horse Crystal Ocean in the St Leger 😥
I’m not a great fan of the O’Brien set up judge, I respect him and admire the fact that he has 21 Group One races to his name this year but I am always trying to take him on and in most cases to my disadvantage.
I did Stradivarius in the Leger 3rd to Capri but I was very impressed with the way he won the race he is a lovely geniune horse and that was not his race yesterday.
Coolmore use a lot of smoke and mirrors tactics in their races, because they can.
When US Navy Flag won The Phoenix at Newmarket on Saturday Ryan Moore chose to ride Sioux Nation, he must have known SN wouldn’t go on the ground but hey the race went to the Smith, Tabor, Magnier team with the second at 25/1..nice forecast too.
Sioux Nation could only finish 6th to US Navy Flag who he had beaten last time out at the Curragh on good to firm ground. US Navy Flag has won all his races on soft ground and Sioux Nation on nothing softer than good, the money came because Ryan Moore was on his back.
Anyway my point is don’t write Capri off until he runs another race which I hope will be the Qipco Long Distance. I’m not defending O’Brien I’m defending Capri it’s the first time he’s run such a bad race and he gave his all in the St. Leger. If Mick Channon had been lucky enough to have had a Leger winner this year I doubt he would have run it in the Arc. Capri has been highly tried over all distances and I think he has more to give… Jac
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...I’m very much in your camp Jac with CAPRI. I raved a bit about him before the Derby, which didn’t
work out, but he paid me back in the Irish version. I’m ashamed of myself for deserting him in the
St Leger, but I was pleased to see him win. I think the Arc was a race too far in a tough season,
but I don’t think it should take anything away from the horse. Incidentally, you mentioned US NAVY
FLAG, who I bet on Saturday, but I’m a bit miffed that I only put him down as a reserve in your
Saturday compy…..where I drew a blank
BTW, Big G, well done on Cloth of Stars – he proved me wrong. Same to Steve and other COS supporters – a great run for your money.
Ouch yes bad luck there Graham with US Navy Flag I know Darren on the 2yo thread was kicking himself too for not backing him.
Hindsight is a great thing and if I had thought the race out as well as I did after it had run I would have been on him too instead I plumped for Unfortunately who I have now worked out hates the Rowley Mile..LOL so well done for getting some real money on USNF at the end of the day it’s better than a few old points, save them up for the all the winners you’re going to put in the compy for the jumps season.
and Cloth of Stars ran a great race for you and all his supporters yesterday…well done. It will be interesting now to see if they do decide to run Capri again, he is around 6/1 for the Long Distance race, or put him away for next season, they are the only ones who know the answer to that question and I doubt you would get a straight yes or no from the Master of Disguise that is AOB..Jac
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Cheers Joe, he ran a blinder and I think there could be more to come. He certainly has
his quirks but to chase home Enable the way he did, having had to wait for his gap, was
really pleasing. I’d have considered him for the Arc next year, but for the fact that only
one 5 year old has won it in the last 30 years. He’ll pick up some nice races if he stays
in training.Jac, I hope they do keep Capri in training, he’s a genuine horse who you know
will battle 100% at the end of a race. I know what you mean about AOB, I think
he and Willie Mullins are joined at the hip I think people are biased towards Capri as it’s an O’Brien horse. People just love O’Brien.
if it was a Leger winner trained by say, Mick Channon, people wouldn’t care less that it was easily beaten.
I reckon it was lucky to win the Irish derby and if it ran against Cracksman now it would get lapped.
Or maybe I’m just embittered as it beat my Stoutey horse Crystal Ocean in the St Leger 😥
I’m not a great fan of the O’Brien set up judge, I respect him and admire the fact that he has 21 Group One races to his name this year but I am always trying to take him on and in most cases to my disadvantage.
I did Stradivarius in the Leger 3rd to Capri but I was very impressed with the way he won the race he is a lovely geniune horse and that was not his race yesterday.
Coolmore use a lot of smoke and mirrors tactics in their races, because they can.
When US Navy Flag won The Phoenix at Newmarket on Saturday Ryan Moore chose to ride Sioux Nation, he must have known SN wouldn’t go on the ground but hey the race went to the Smith, Tabor, Magnier team with the second at 25/1..nice forecast too. Sioux Nation could only finish 6th to US Navy Flag who he had beaten last time out at the Curragh on good to firm ground. US Navy Flag has won all his races on soft ground and Sioux Nation on nothing softer than good, the money came because Ryan Moore was on his back.
Anyway my point is don’t write Capri off until he runs another race which I hope will be the Qipco Long Distance. I’m not defending O’Brien I’m defending Capri it’s the first time he’s run such a bad race and he gave his all in the St. Leger. If Mick Channon had been lucky enough to have had a Leger winner this year I doubt he would have run it in the Arc. Capri has been highly tried over all distances and I think he has more to give… Jac
jeez get off the fence. Capri is a nothing special horse, who was lucky to win two classics. The only reason this forum is obsessed by him is because of O’brien, end of.
As I said about Capri beforehand:
Form of the St Leger is good – for a St Leger – but Capri still has to improve to reach the standard of Order Of St George and (given the sex allowance) Winter. In form terms I’d put him alongside Idaho but with a “+”.
I think Coolmore’s decision to run Winter meant tactics were based on her; trying (in theory) to make it a test of speed for the Guineas winner to outspeed the Oaks winner. However, their other four runners were all stamina horses at 1m4f and therefore unsuited by the lack of a true pace and Enable has more speed than people gave her credit for anyway (exceptional sectionals earlier in the year). So Ballydoyle’s team tactics actually played in to the hands of team Enable – I was counting my winnings at half-way.
When Coolmore have a lot of runners in a race they don’t put them all in to one basket. Some ridden prominently, some mid-div and some held up. Even a stamina horse is sometimes favoured by hold up tactics in a strongly run affair. Capri was held up, no doubt just in case a rival went on at a strong pace, that didn’t happen and therefore never going to run to St Leger form. Rider knew it and Capri was given an easy time – possibly looking to the Long Distance Cup or may be Group 1’s abroad considering the Group 1 World Record is still on for his trainer.
Anyway, Capri was a long way behind his Leger form. Can see why Steve is against St Leger runners in the Arc, they’ll be inconvenienced by all but one type of pace. So unless believing it’s going to be a truly run race probably best to oppose them. It was overall a bloody good St Leger, but the form is also short of the World’s top mile and a half race. Of the first three home it may be Capri who struggles next year if kept to this distance. Stradivarius’s future is over extremes and the form is already near Gold Cup winning standard. Crystal Ocean is improving and that progression may continue over middle-distances – as a lot of Stoute’s 4 year olds do. Capri’s Irish Derby form is of a similar standard to the Leger; hasn’t improved much if at all since July and O’Brien’s horses usually reach their peak form rating by the end of their 3 year old season. So may not have the scope to improve in to a top middle-distance performer.
Value Is EverythingIf the Arc is going to be won by an Irish Derby runner think it’s far more likely to be Cracksman. Suspicion is it fell in to place for Capri. With the big three too concerned with each other. Cracksman arguably ridden too prominent at Epsom and too far back in Ireland and fewer races/less exposed than any Ballydoyle three year old. However, Gosden proabably has a better chance with Enable. Impressive in the Oaks, even stiffer test of stamina should suit and unlike both Capri and Cracksman is not in the St Leger. 12/1 Enable worth taking.
Coolmore don’t seem to have many alternatives (Wings Of Eagles and probably Minding out). With Highland Reel going so close last year suspect he’ll be aimed at the race again. If there’s a real top class horse in the line up he’ll get beaten, but when he’s sure to be in the shake up and shortish price/good chance for the King George… 14/1 for the Arc is a good bet.
With Highland Reel disappointing on soft ground at Ascot, I’ve managed to get a Lay bet matched at a small loss @ average odds of 17.35/1. (now Highland Reel losing exactly the same as every other runner). He’s quickly gone back out to 29/1.
Effectively with the amount staked on the Arc compared to how much I stand to win am now on just one horse – Enable @ 10.86/1.
I’ve now laid Enable back @ 1.16/1, so effectively got a free bet.
A belated
Value Is EverythingInteresting that this time around the lower numbers were indeed favoured.
1. #2
2. #3
3. #1
4. #9 (very good race again from OoSG)
5. #4
6. #10 (DS also on the outside the whole way)
7. #6
8. #7
9. #8
10. #18 (a good race from Zarak with the worst draw)No chance this year, if you drew in double figures.
Next year could be the best five year old generation in a while. A 2nd, 6th and 10th of the Arc possibly staying in training.
Shes a staggeringly good filly. I was surprised anyone could imagine taking her on. There was no chink in the armour or formbook.
She was in the best hands in the business IMO and it was just the perfect type of race for her
Agree about Channon and Capri.. Judge.
I don’t disagree with you Clive, she was the best in the field and barring a bad or
unlucky ride she was most certainly the very likely winner. I said as much in my
original post earlier in this thread, but I put up CLOTH OF STARS. It was simply the
odds that made ENABLE a no bet for me. The Arc, as everyone in here is well aware, can be
a tough battle of a race and things don’t always go to plan. As it happens, Dettori rode
the perfect race and never put her in the position of being an unlucky loser. Odds on
in the Arc is never going to attract me, no matter how much I think it’s a steering job.
It was the value aspect of CLOTH OF STARS that made me put him up, and at 33s and 40s
she made a much better return in 2nd than the same money on Enable. But I do take your
point where someone thought she would get turned over, she was simply stunning Re read my bit and must have sounded like dreadful aftertiming. Not that im bothered
I cant do odds on either but did a rare AP on her at 9/4. I think the point was that ive rarely seen any horse so perfectly made for this race. Way she travels, adaptability, determination and sheer brilliance. One of those rare horse that sends a shiver down your spine
Good call with COS but i one of those that can’t put my mind to big price EW
Best filly ive seen. One of the best horses full stop
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