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St Leger 2010

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  • #315490
    Avatar photoBig Bucks
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    well short of the required standard though on racecourse evidence

    #315806
    Avatar photoshabby
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    I’ve just re-read Mordin’s piece on Snow Fairy twice and it makes zero sense. He doesn’t actually give a reason for why fillies do better. He points to the bloodstock bias putting off the top class colts but he says nothing about why fillies stay better.
    quote]

    Hi Zarkava,
    I am surprised by your response to this, I am a big fan of your input into the 2yo and 3yo summary threads as well as many others. But I am sure I have read comments from you on many occasions when you dismiss horses (most often rightly)for future events simply because the trends say so.
    What else is Mordin doing this time, he does offer some sort of theory, as you yourself point out.
    Keep up the good work btw.

    #315814
    Avatar photoZarkava
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    Shabby, the vast majority of my trends all have reasoning behind them. They can be explained one way or another, but I just don’t see how Mordin’s theory can be explained other than that they had already scared off the opposition or were just clearly in a league of their own.

    I’m really not sure what Dandino and Arctic Cosmos are doing being so short in the betting, but given that Rewilding and Midas Touch have been given RPRs of 124 and 121 respectively (compared to Snow Fairy’s 120) and given that both the colts have had 3 or 4 career runs fewer than the filly, I believe that the colts will have the edge over Snow Fairy. IMO, Midas Touch to beat Rewilding. Many a time has the Voltigeur form been reversed on the big day. Look at 2001. The 1-2-3 from the Voltigeur finished 3-2-1 in the Leger.

    #315817
    Avatar photoshabby
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    Z, I totally agree all trends have a rationale, working out the reasoning is the fun part and is the bit that gives the edge.
    Mordin did give a rationale, albeit not one you felt was sufficient. Reading the RP or betrends or other places …the rationale is sometimes omitted (or not expanded upon). Even your own work when you are trawling Derby or Guineas entries often lists the horses that can be dismissed by failing to meet a trend but does not always explain why. Frankly there is rarely any need as the reasoning is implicit.
    I read the same Weekender piece and felt that Mordin was expressing perplexity as to why it appeared such a strong showing for Oaks winners was so rarely exploited.

    #315818
    Avatar photoZarkava
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    Well he’s saying that the fillies are basically the best of the rest since connections don’t want to campaign good colts over further than 12f.

    But no Oaks winner has won the St. Leger since 1992, albeit only 2 have tried (and both placed).

    Godolphin are more than willing to run their best middle-distance horses in the Leger while Ballydoyle have so many decent middle-distance types that they can afford to run their 3rd/4th string at Donny too. Those 2 stables were responsible for 5 of the last 10 St. Leger winners, and quite frankly, I believe Mahler was horribly unlucky in 2007 behind Lucarno.

    #315823
    Avatar photoIan
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    Well he’s saying that the fillies are basically the best of the rest since connections don’t want to campaign good colts over further than 12f.

    But no Oaks winner has won the St. Leger since 1992, albeit only 2 have tried (and both placed).

    Godolphin are more than willing to run their best middle-distance horses in the Leger while Ballydoyle have so many decent middle-distance types that they can afford to run their 3rd/4th string at Donny too. Those 2 stables were responsible for 5 of the last 10 St. Leger winners, and quite frankly, I believe Mahler was horribly unlucky in 2007 behind Lucarno.

    In recent years though which Godolphin middle distance horses have been genuine classic / Group one horses over a mile and a half? The reason they send their best (or near enough best) to the St Leger is because it gives them the best chance of winning a classic.

    #315946
    andyod
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    I got a lot of stick because i said early in the season that the Baallydoyle 3yo’s were under a cloud and should not be backed until they return to form. Many people wrote that they were just not good enough.Their appearance, I have been informed, at Leopardstown today indicated that they are back on track to win from here on.Recent winners included Await the Dawn and Flying Cross.I believe that their 3yo’s can now be followed with confidence and that they will win the St.Leger.

    #315957
    Avatar photowlively
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    Dandino shows a good form, Paul Mulrennan seems to get the best him and will probably deliver at St. Leger. His an almost natural choice as Rewilding would probably reveal itself as the failing favorite, though he had been successful under the reign of Frankie Dettori, still his odds in comparison with Dandino’s set the latter as the better choice.
    just for the sport, I’d still lean on Rewilding for place, for he is still strong enough in his form. Snow Fairy for show is also a hunch but I’m not sure how she will handle the extra distance and her being the only filly in the race.

    #316029
    Avatar photoraymo61
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    Arctic Cosmos is the one for me staying on over twelve!! Looks tailor made for the trip,its juts a case of whether it is good enough or not!!! I am on at various prices and will be there on the day to back Arctic again!!

    #316046
    Kautostar1
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    Arctic Cosmos is the one for me staying on over twelve!! Looks tailor made for the trip,its juts a case of whether it is good enough or not!!! I am on at various prices and will be there on the day to back Arctic again!!

    I’m on at 10-1 looks a very good thing. Bit further than what he’s used to but think shouldn’t be a problem the way he has looked in previous races

    #316050
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
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    I"m still clutching my Ante-Post vouchers for

    Total Command

    winning the St Leger at 16/1,he is currently twice the price after a dismal run in the Voltigeur and one would be surprised he even turns up after such a run but Sir Michael did leave him in at the last forfeit stage which surprised me,i have had to snaffle the 160 and 140 on the machine just because this fellows full sister Quiff ran her finest race in defeat in this very race! If he does turn up i can see him running a big race as he has the profile of a Leger horse barring his last run,if he doesn"t run i think

    Snow Fairy

    will do a

    User Friendly

    !

    #316058
    Avatar photoZarkava
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    Her stamina index figures are incredibly low for a potential St Leger winner, Gordon. Only Rule of Law has had combining sire and damsire stamina index figures less than 19.8 in the past 15 years and he probably only got the trip cos McEvoy stacked and racked them up.

    #316066
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
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    Her stamina index figures are incredibly low for a potential St Leger winner, Gordon. Only Rule of Law has had combining sire and damsire stamina index figures less than 19.8 in the past 15 years and he probably only got the trip cos McEvoy stacked and racked them up.

    I respect your figures Zarkava but to the eye,her last 3 runs all suggested St Leger to me! Even the poor ride Richard Hughes gave her at York,mind you i say it more and more but if there"s a jockey who can make the simplest things look difficult its Hughsey! :roll:

    #316080
    Anonymous
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    • Total Posts 17716

    Snow Fairy stayed on well behind Midday at York, but let’s not pretend that she was anything other than outclassed (little surprise given the abismal form of the Irish Oaks).

    Rewilding is bred to stay, battered Midas Touch in the Great Voltigeur (albeit in receipt of 3lbs) and has plenty of scope for improvement. With a half decent pace and a little bit of cover, I think he could win this race extremely easily.

    #316087
    andyod
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    • Total Posts 4012

    At Leopardstown on Sat. it looked like Ballydoyle are back in form. So beware Leger followers of Godolfin.

    #316147
    Avatar photonulty
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    • Total Posts 443

    Well folks, it looks like its gonna be a wet leger. Serious rainfall expected during the week. If its anything at Doncaster like it is here in Dublin, they’ll need water wings!

    I took 25/1 ew about Ted Spread last night…well actually I tipped him at 25/1 ew but woke this morning to get the bet on and found the prices were smashed. Got 20/1 at Paddy Power though. I reckon he’s a Regal Parade – a totally different horse on soft ground.

    #316211
    Aragorn
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    I wouldn’t run Rewilding if he was mine. I’d go for the Arc.

    I was at York for the Voltigeur and if Rewilding doesn’t run for any reason (I believe he will win comfortably) I would have Joshua Tree over Midas Touch. He looked really burly in the parade ring and I was amazed he ran so well.

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