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Thanks for clearing that up AP.
But, I think to be fair we should acknowledge that a relatively large proportion of that 52% was an extraordinary payout used to bail out the banks. A decision that at least placed taxpayer equity within the system and should, albeit when is uncertain, be returned to the taxpayer at some stage in the future.
Btw, I don’t accept all is rosy, far from it. The PFI is a right mess and has the potential of being as big a black hole as the Greek economy.
But, what I object too is this somewhat flippant attitude of some that the public sector/ordinary taxpayers should be expected to have to pay the cost of a financial crisis not of our making.
Quote Jose 1933:
And just a quick note to the poster who likes quoting me – if I know I’m wrong and I’m admitting I’m wrong, why on earth get riled over someone who liked The Sun’s way of referring to Gordon Brown as a squatter? It’s stupid.
The poster who likes quoting you has a pen name just the same as you do & it would be polite to use it.
So now I’m stupid to get in your opinion (wrong again) riled.Priceless.
Quote Jose 1933:
And just a quick note to the poster who likes quoting me – if I know I’m wrong and I’m admitting I’m wrong, why on earth get riled over someone who liked The Sun’s way of referring to Gordon Brown as a squatter? It’s stupid.
The poster who likes quoting you has a pen name just the same as you do & it would be polite to use it.
So now I’m stupid to get in your opinion (wrong again) riled.Priceless.
Yes, and it’s 1993 not 1933 just to try and help.
You must be fussed at the very least to be concerned over a person who’s clearly supporting David Cameron, and the Conservative party, calling, rather sarcastically, the now former PM a squatter when I knew full well he wasn’t a squatter. It’s not often you get the chance to joke about a PM of all people being a "squatter."
Gordon’s gone now. The exit speech was pathetic.
It’s not the exit speech that’s pathetic, you can’t even resist a cheap jibe at me because I put years on you.
Ladies don’t do fussed, it’s up to you wear you hang your hat politically,what I don’t like is your sarcasm.Pompete
…The last time I looked the public sector was about 6 million from a workforce of about 27.5 million…
apracing
…The public sector 52% refers to GDP, not workforce. The figures were published recently by some independent organisation…
I’m clearly missing something here, but if 6 million public sector workers produce 52% of GDP and 21.5 million private sector workers (OK, less a few million unemployed) produce 48% of GDP, then why is the public sector seen as the problem?
Kifill,
It’s a problem because the public sector doesn’t produce wealth – it has to be paid for by taxes on the private sector.
No denying that much of the public sector is essential, but ours is too big and needs too much taken out of the private sector to support it. And the more you take in taxes, the less there is for investment in new products, new equipment, new jobs.
Doubtless there’ll be a left winger along shortly to tell us that the private sector is all about fat cats and profits for shareholders.
AP
Just to clarify the facts, the 52% figure comes from an OECD report published in March and quoted in many newspaper articles at the time.
In 1997, the equivalent figure was 40%, in line with most other members of the EU and with the USA.
In the year prior to the bank rescue package it had already risen to 47.5% during the lifetime of this government.
Based on Treasury figures for 2010/11 given in the last Budget, the figure will approach 53% this year.
AP
Well, the die is cast, the deed is done; looks like the coalition government is a being formed. Whatever my misgivings I hope everyone can work together, because we’ve got a pretty amazing country with amazing people and we should be proud of ourselves. Strangely enough, David Cameron’s speech tonight sounded more like a Labour Prime Minister than a Conservative one, which is why I wish him well and hope that he is more sincere than I have given him credit for.
I believe the UK is not alone in seeing the public sector account for an ever-increasing percentage of hypothetical GDP; it’s a problem facing the majority of mature economies, though I’m quite prepared to believe the percentage is increasing more rapidly here
Some would argue that the move from a manufacturing economy (private sector primary wealth creation) to a service economy (public sector secondary wealth creation) is a natural consequence as a capitalist economy matures. Manufacturing shifts to the developing economies such as those in the Far East and the West is left with ‘old’ wealth that is repeatedly recycled through the collection of taxes to pay the public ‘service’ sector
This strikes me as the major problem the West faces in paying-off or reducing a deficit that was accumulated in the main by the ‘fictitious’ money traded on the world’s financial markets which bore little relation to the ‘real’ wealth the countries have
A mountain of debt that couldn’t have been lent in the first place had the West have had the good sense to remain on the quantifiable Gold Standard
Perhaps, possibly, who knows…I don’t
So the Conservatives and Liberals have accepted the poisoned chalice and will no doubt be drinking its so-sour contents deeply over the coming months
‘Phew, well out of it’ sighs of relief from Labour
I can already visualise Rory Bremner doing a sketch of Dave and Nick in bed after a hard day at Westminster a la Morecombe and Wise.
Incredible last 24 hours. I hope Clegg and Cameron can make it work. Time to begin the celebrations – bye bye to the ID Card scheme.
Pompete,
apologies – "public sector workforce" was my shorthand for anyone whose income is funded out of taxation, or government borrowing ultimately repayable out of taxation.
so, not just the 6m folk directly employed by the state, but also those nominally employed by the private sector but in reality being paid by government / town halls out of taxation – eg the consultant, or the motorway construction worker, or the supplier to the NHS, etc.
in effect, as AP has said, those within the public sector GDP.
the 53 per cent figure could be 62 per cent according to the official statistician:
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Public sector net debt, expressed as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), was 62.0 per cent at the end of March 2010 compared with 52.9 per cent at end of March 2009. Net debt was £890.0 billion at the end of March compared with £742.3 billion a year earlier.Public sector net borrowing (excluding financial interventions) was £35.5 billion in the fourth quarter of 2009-10, up from £26.4 billion in the fourth quarter of 2008-9.
Public sector net debt (excluding financial interventions) was £771.6 billion (equivalent to 53.8 per cent of GDP) at the end of March 2010. This compares to £617.0 billion (44.0 per cent of GDP) as at the end of March 2009.
==================
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=206
agree that certain functions have to be performed by central government, but nowhere near the social engineering overload currently seen.
also agree that there is no reason that say a bus driver on 450 quid a week should, through taxation, have bailed out eg those depositors who chased unfeasibly high interest rates in Icelandic banks – and not just for the principal amount but so that they even ended up getting those unfeasibly high interest rates at the bus driver’s expense.
capitalism says that failure should mean loss: bailout is a socialist notion.
if the UK government (and others) had preserved the legal requirement, learned from hard experience in the 1920s/1930s, that regular boring banking be kept separate from casino investment banking, and had not blithely turned casino bank debt into sovereign debt on the advice of the likes of Goldman Sachs leading to Brown’s "saved the world" boast, the derivatives crisis – which is still out there, just been kicked down the road a bit – would have been restricted to those playing that game.
instead, everyone is suffering to pay out those holding otherwise duff derivative betting slips.
an insolvency where the creditors get bailed out in full by people totally uninvolved in the transactions.
Time to begin the celebrations – bye bye to the ID Card scheme.
Yay, you can come out of hiding now.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Time to begin the celebrations – bye bye to the ID Card scheme.
Yay, you can come out of hiding now.
I don’t know if it was a case of being in hiding. 5 more years of Gordon Brown would have led me to find a way out of Britain.
I think I’m more optimistic than many were at the beginning of the New Labour era with this government, though. No more Labour nonsense of – Cash for Honours, expenses, adjusting figures to hide the truth in all areas. The truth is known in the area that matters most for the best part, but will the country be able to accept what will happen?
Cutting out a nonsense ID Card scheme is a great start to the new government. Maybe the new government will remove ASBO’s quite soon as well.
Ambivalent about ID Cards but very pleased they’ve cancelled the proposed third runway at Heathrow.
Don’t believe for one second aircraft usage is going to increase much, if at all
On a related point it’s good to see a plan to tax aircraft rather than passengers; planes use the same amount of fuel (more or less) whether full or empty after all
Far too long in the tooth to expect much from new boys and girls in number 10, but do admit to an inkling of optimism about this coalition
Time will tell, and will no doubt disappoint as usual but let’s give ’em a chance to sort out sundry messes
Better men than them you I or anyone required I suspect
A good post Drone, and I agree our approach should be one of ‘an inkling of optimism’. It could work and if it does this country in my view will be the better for it. It was quite right for Labour not to enter into any ‘Rainbow’ coalition and for Brown to go.
To be fair to Cameron, from the moment of his election address to become leader of the Conservatives he has always stood on a platform of social justice for the most vulnerable in society and I think he is actually sincere on this.
I would suspect if anything will be the undoing of this coalition it will be the right wing of the Tories and I think we will be able to form a greater understanding of whether this coalition will work during the Party Conferences later this year.
I’d agree that we should be hopeful thi will succeed – for myself I suspect problems will arise the first time Cameron feels the need to sack one of the Lib Dems from the cabinet. Apparently the rules they’ve agreed state that the replacement would also have to be a Lib Dem – but I doubt if anyone can name a single Lib dem that isn’t already in the cabinet!
I can see two that are vulnerable. I strongly suspect that Vince Cable will turn out to be a man of straw and incapable of maintaining the coalition line for more than a few months – would anyone be surprised if he resigned in a huff after some presumed slight? My old Mum would sum him up as ‘all mouth and no trousers’.
And appointing the rabidly anti-nuclear power Huhne as Energy Secretary seems about as sensible as putting John Prescott in charge of the Food Standards Agency. We have a farm of four windmills just outside Swindon alongside the Oxford road. It was reported locally that during the big freeze in January, they were producing just enough electricity to light up a sign outside the Honda car plant saying ‘Factory closed due to power cuts’.
AP
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