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Only just noticed that Eightfold Path is still entered in the 2000 Guineas and Oirish one. For some reason had got the impression they wouldn’t come over, combined with Mordin’s remark that the French (especially Heads) think it is essential that the horse runs at N’ket as a 2yo. Not a Head horse though.
£7.23 @ 213.4
Some idiot has knocked it into 50s.
"He has been progressing with every race and Stephane said today’s distance was too short for him. He will not run again this year and will be campaigned in all the top mile events next season."
Read this after the race, but have now re-interpreted it. That’ll mean the Guineas then.
As you guys know i like Kingsfort a lot but his stable do not hit form in May.May have to go with something else now Steinbeck is out.
For some reason this is the first time I’ve noticed this thread for a couple of weeks. Still on the first page, but it is a good ‘un already.
Thanks for the local knowledge Funkmaster, there ain’t that much of it around. We usually have to rely on Fist in Thailand.
Only bet with betfair, so I was surprised that Kingsfort is 16/1. For some reason on betfair, it is hard for the price to get much lower than 30 or so. The funny thing is, I used to look at the 2000 Guineas market 2 or 3 times a day last Summer, but I’ve barely looked at it this year.
A couple of things I already wanted to comment on, but this one really annoyed me. Will read it to remind me what its about.
After the mess he made of the race last year I wouldn’t be interested in any of AOB’s. Especially as the animals behind SNA in the betting have achieved bugger all.
Aah, it annoyed me on two levels. First, AOB isn’t capable of learning?
Secondly, Beethoven. This is the secret love that I have kept away from Zarkava. You can’t knock this one out on pedigree. What its got against it is all those runs.
One of the reasons that people knocked Kingsfort’s run in the National Stakes was how close Beethoven was, but Beethoven went on to win the Dewhurst.
My pleasure. Like most people I don’t get much info that I would read too much into but the are so many stables around these parts and every now and again you get to hear something worth while. It’s just a shame I didn’t listen to my own advice for Cheltenham though as I didn’t back Cue Card like I suggested on the bumper thread!
lolAfter the mess he made of the race last year I wouldn’t be interested in any of AOB’s. Especially as the animals behind SNA in the betting have achieved bugger all.
Aah, it annoyed me on two levels. First, AOB isn’t capable of learning?
Secondly, Beethoven. This is the secret love that I have kept away from Zarkava. You can’t knock this one out on pedigree. What its got against it is all those runs.
Of course he’s capable of learning, I just think the 2000Guins isn’t race they’re that interested in. The race leaves me cold this year. I won’t be having a bet in it.
I think someone wrote something similar last year about Ballydoyle/Coolmore not being interested in the 2000 Guineas, and I just don’t understand it. Surely their record suggests they’re interested in it?
If they aren’t interested in the 2000 Guineas, they can’t be too interested in many other races either. Surely the 2000 Guineas retains all the lustre and prestige it ever had?
I think they’re very pre-occupied with the Breeders Cup and maybe don’t want to hard train their best 3yo colts this early in the season. Of their recent winners Henrythenavigotor improved markedly after his Guineas win and I don’t think George was a horse you could have gone easy with.
Hey guys – fishing season is over ’til june!
Not interested in the Guineas! – I’m sure that will get a lot of these
Aiden hasn’t had the ammo – not a stand out like ‘George’ anyways…
He has the top rated in SNA – yet he’s not seen in the same light – everyone wants to take him on in both the Guineas & Derby – as ever hindsight will be funny this year?!!
As for targeting the Breeders’ Cup –
I’d say the runners that he’s had there – were there more as an afterthought – why not give it a go sort of thing.
If they were given the perfect prep – he would sure be doing better over there – most get sent stateside having had a long hard season – having already met/contested targets earlier on in the year.(This may contradict the above)
Has anyone noticed how none of the classic generation that contested races all year – against ‘Sea The Stars’ covered themselves in glory at Santa Anita last dec?
Did they all run below form?!
(Talent would have helped negate the less than perfect prep surely?)As for the breeding he seems to have a young crop in general this year:
St Nicholas Abbey b 13 Apr
Fencing Master b 25 Apr
Cape Blanco ch 20 Apr
Beethoven b 02 Aprwallace-no7 – thanks for the info
Zarkava – re: foaling dates – nothing sinister was thought – just different starting points!- Total Posts 17716
Apparantly St Nick (went well) worked at half pace on the course after racing yesterday which too many would seem to point to a crack at the Guineas. I wouldn’t bet my life on it though.
Won’t be long until we go through days on end of which will run, which will JM ride? Bo…….ring !!!!!!!!!!!
Rumours like always are already flying about but as my good Irish friend points out, this year it’s not a case of which horse of AOB’s will win the Guineas but more a case of does AOB want to try and win the Guineas?
By that he meant the only horse of his worth considering is St Nicholas Abbey the rest simply aren’t good enough.
To work out what AOB will do you have to think like AOB and that is beyond me as I don’t know enough about stud values, but ask I will that play a big part in his decision?
My question is if he ran in the guineas and got beat but went on to win the Derby would he be just as valuable as he would be if he went for a Derby trial won it and then won the Derby? I would have thought remaining unbeaten adds more value but I simply don’t know how these things work.
We all know after the Racing Post that St Nicholas Abbey can quicken off a slow pace but the million dollar question must be, can he do so off what promises to be an incredibly fast pace in the Guineas?
The risk of him being taken off his feet has got to be a lot less in longer races.
I don’t think AOB is waiting to see which horse has improved most or which is his best horse for the Guineas. I think he knows the answer to that one already and it’s all down to do we run him or not?. As far as the rest go they all look a pretty ordinary bunch with very little between them……his only alternative to running St Nicholas Abbey is surely to put his trust in luck, throw you know what at the wall and hope some sticks.
I’m fairly sure St Nick will get ‘injured’ about a week before the race, possibly he’ll scope dirty or so and go to the Dante instead.
The next best thing for Ballydoyle after winning the Guineas with St Nick is him being injured and never having had to be tested over the trip again, thus preserving his reputation and making it look like Ballydoyle’s gutted that he misses the Guineas.
Zarkava you are beginning to talk crazy.You contradicted yourself at least twice in your latest post. If SNA wins the Guineas he does not need to win over a mile again. The guineas is the ultimate mile race for stud purposes.He will go on to win the triple crown if he wins the guineas.Not ducking and diving.
PS. Crazy talk or not,I still love you.I strongly disagree that the Ballydoyle contingent of 3yo are a pretty ordinary bunch. They are at least as good as the opposition and in my opinion far superior to the known opposition.Some of them have beaten the best that other stables could throw at them whether in Ireland, England or France. Of the main group one races in England for TYOs they won three. With three different horses. That is hardly ordinary.If being first is ordinary many would wish to be called ordinary! I think that Ballydoyle have some very good three year olds this year; superior in fact to last years group when but for Sea the Stars they would probably have swept the boards in England. In fact they did win every Derby trial last year.Not a bad record.I don’t recall any occasion when STS was followed home in England by a home based horse after the Guineas.But only time will tell which opinion is correct.So roll on the flat season.
Zarkava
I must have misunderstood you but it seems you say first that SNA wins the Guineas for Ballydoyle and then you say that he missed the Guineas.How can he win and miss the guineas at the same time? I acknowledge that I may have missed something here so I am open to enlightenment.Over to you for the enlightenment part.Andy, my point was that the next best thing after winning the 2000 Guineas with St. Nick would be missing it through injury and keeping his reputation intact.
For Ballydoyle, if they can’t do something with a stallion, the next best thing for them is to give the impression that they WOULD have done it.
I honestly believe that he’ll scope dirty the day before or pick up a stone bruise. I don’t believe for a second that he’ll run in the race. Montjeu’s progeny simply aren’t fast enough.
Not much speed in the dam side either. The damsire also sired Kilbeggan Blade ffs.
I can see them running Beethoven, Fencing Master and Cape Blanco, while leaving the Derrinstown route for St. Nick and the Dante for Jan Vermeer.
I don’t believe for one moment that either John or Aidan would subscribe to what you wrote Zarkava. I think you must be trying to engage in a strange discussion. Aidan is the most honorable person.He may speak up his horses.Everyone does.But he would not engage in what you describe.He never attempted to duck Sea the Stars last year and I don’t believe he would duck any challenge.If you remember he took on Teofilio with HRE twice. He could have ducked him the second time after he won in France but with only a 2 weeks break he came back to take him on the second time.He was looking forward to taking him on in the Guineas when he was retired to stud by John to replace the Mad One. Incidentally he had his first winner on Sunday at the Curragh.
Against Sea The Stars they had nothing to lose and everything to gain when they ran Rip in the Eclipse. Same for HRE against Teofilo in the Dewhurst.
Andy, the operation is a lot more shrewd/sneaky than you think and I say that as a huge fan of their operation for the past 5 years. I used to back anything that moved that ran in dark blue silks.
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