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Protected Names Revisited

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  • #1248655
    wit
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    • Total Posts 2171

    Andrew Hawkins, SCMP:

    The year is 2006. August, to be exact. Twitter is only a month old. Pluto is demoted to a dwarf planet. The world is about to be shocked by the death of ‘Crocodile Hunter’ Steve Irwin.

    In racing, rags to riches Australian galloper Takeover Target departs London, bound for Japan and a tilt at the Sprinters Stakes, while Richard Mandella’s Affirmed gelding The Tin Man leads from box to wire to take the Arlington Million in Chicago.

    But wait a minute, only a decade on and the world has turned upside down. The Tin Man wins a Listed race and is favourite for the Diamond Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot? And Takeover Target wins a turf feature and is now a chance of running in the Arlington Million?

    Maybe 2016 is just 2006 on laughing gas, with prominent racehorse names rehashed freely and little respect shown for the champions that once held each moniker….

    continued here:

    http://racing.scmp.com/freeservice/news/news20160527.asp

    #1248658
    Avatar photoKenh
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    • Total Posts 750

    An excellent article although slightly ironic that the section of the paper it’s in is named Racing Post.

    #1248672
    Avatar photobetlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2804

    It’s W Six Times all over again!

    Mike

    #1248791
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3374

    It’s hard to know what can be done, especially with country prefix issue. Must admit I get just as irritated when a decent handicapper has their name duplicated, there have been hundreds in the UK these last few years eg Persepolis.

    I would never name a horse if I knew of another horse with the same name.

    I suppose we just have to accept it will happen and that there are far more important issues to worry about.

    A much bigger “crime” in my book and one something should be done about is horses being purchased in the UK & elsewhere and being allowed to run under an entirely different name in Hong Kong. Should be a name for life in my book once they’ve raced.

    #1248799
    Avatar photoDrone
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    • Total Posts 5947

    No idea how many named thoroughbreds there’ve been during the long history of the Turf but it must be into the millions so a problem being encountered now could be that all the ‘good’ names have been used before

    #1248868
    wit
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    • Total Posts 2171

    …A much bigger “crime” in my book and one something should be done about is horses being purchased in the UK & elsewhere and being allowed to run under an entirely different name in Hong Kong. Should be a name for life in my book once they’ve raced.

    then the “crime” is that Chinese is a logographic, rather than alphabetic or syllabic, language.

    with no domestic breeding, every racehorse in HK is imported – most from AUS or NZ, fewer from IRE, GB and elsewhere.

    each one is given a Chinese name, which is the primary name by which it is recognised by over 95 per cent of HK racegoers / bettors.

    as a very secondary consideration, each also is allotted a name expressed in the Roman alphabet. by choice of owners, this tends to be its original name left unchanged, or a phonetic approximation of the Chinese name, or a meaning-based translation.

    HKJC has not been immune to the pushback generally in HK (for top-down political reasons) against the English language since 1997, and there is constant rearguard action within HKJC by the international element just to preserve the current co-use of English. not so long ago, the English-language broadcasting by HKJC was under serious threat of being discontinued.

    greater use of English is not really on the cards, so have to make do with the HKJC table:
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/horse_former_name.asp

    toggle to this table to find the Chinese name:
    http://www.hkjc.com/chinese/racing/horse_former_name.asp

    #1248871
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3374

    wit,

    Is that why Luck Or Design changed to Lucky Nine, Comic Strip to Viva Pataca, Freemantle to Straight Forward and Kalaman to Oriental Magic, amongst others, when they were purchased from here to run in Hong Kong?

    #1248882
    TheGhostofCruella
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    • Total Posts 50

    China isn’t a member of the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities (who agree and maintain the criteria for international name protection) and has only signed some of the articles of the International Agreement so don’t consider themselves bound by the same rules of naming and keeping or changing names as the majority of racing countries who have signed up fully.

    #1248884
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2171

    really need to ask the owners what was going through their minds in that process, but with the horses you mention:

    Lucky Nine – ex Luck or Design:
    http://www.hkjc.com/chinese/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=L259
    in the Chinese name the characters mean Long Time/Old Story – Heavens/Imperial
    the owners currently have Lucky Double Eight – ex Stralia:
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Horse.asp?HorseNo=P212
    whose Chinese characters mean Due To – Oneself – Victory

    Viva Pataca – ex Comic Strip:
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=G096
    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Bomb/Burst Open – Cool/Chill
    the owner Stanley Ho famously made his fortune running casinos in Macau and had other horses named Viva Macau, Viva Hong Kong, Viva Pronto, etc.

    Oriental Magic – ex Kalaman:
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=E133
    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Expert – Art – Witch
    reasonably literal translation. the owner also had Oriental Express and a number of other Express horses.

    Straight Forward – ex Freemantle:
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=L100
    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Cheerful/Pleasant-Person-Cheerful/Pleasant-Word
    so pretty much a literal translation.

    #1248885
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2171

    China isn’t a member of the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities (who agree and maintain the criteria for international name protection) and has only signed some of the articles of the International Agreement so don’t consider themselves bound by the same rules of naming and keeping or changing names as the majority of racing countries who have signed up fully.

    China is not, but Hong Kong is:

    http://www.horseracingintfed.com/default.asp?section=About%20IFHA&area=5

    #1248897
    patrickleung
    Participant
    • Total Posts 90

    really need to ask the owners what was going through their minds in that process, but with the horses you mention:

    Lucky Nine – ex Luck or Design:

    http://www.hkjc.com/chinese/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=L259

    in the Chinese name the characters mean Long Time/Old Story – Heavens/Imperial
    the owners currently have Lucky Double Eight – ex Stralia:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Horse.asp?HorseNo=P212

    whose Chinese characters mean Due To – Oneself – Victory

    Viva Pataca – ex Comic Strip:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=G096

    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Bomb/Burst Open – Cool/Chill
    the owner Stanley Ho famously made his fortune running casinos in Macau and had other horses named Viva Macau, Viva Hong Kong, Viva Pronto, etc.

    Oriental Magic – ex Kalaman:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=E133

    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Expert – Art – Witch
    reasonably literal translation. the owner also had Oriental Express and a number of other Express horses.

    Straight Forward – ex Freemantle:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=L100

    in the Chinese name, the characters mean Cheerful/Pleasant-Person-Cheerful/Pleasant-Word
    so pretty much a literal translation.

    As a Hongkonger, I can help clarify those names:

    For Lucky Nine, the chinese name comes from a gambling game which is common among old Hongkongers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tien_Gow

    Somehow the owner changed from 天九 to 天久. But they have same pronunciations in Cantonese.

    For Viva Pictaca, the Chinese name means ‘against the odds’ It is Viva Macau who have the Chinese name meaning bombing.
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/OtherHorse.asp?HorseNo=H110&search=1

    After Viva Pictaca, Stanley Ho used Viva in English Name. He used 爆 in Chinese.
    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/ownersearch.asp?horseowner=Stanley Ho Hung Sun
    http://www.hkjc.com/chinese/racing/ownersearch.asp?horseowner=%26%2320309%3B%26%2340251%3B%26%2329130%3B&ensearch=1&enhorseowner=Stanley Ho Hung Sun

    Oriental Magic’s Chinese name means magician. Larry Yung, owner of Oriental Magic, seems not have a common Chinese word in his horses.

    For Straigt Forward, that is a good translation. The Chinese name means being straight forward.

    #1248900
    patrickleung
    Participant
    • Total Posts 90

    If you follows HK racing, you may find some of the local owners used some incredible names.

    Here is a classic example:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Horse.asp?HorseNo=T355

    He is called Lucky Girl despite being a gelding. Even Joao Moreira once thought he is she when being interviewed!

    #1248902
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2171

    many thanks.

    my Chinese is largely self-taught, so always grateful for correction / clarification !

    #1248903
    patrickleung
    Participant
    • Total Posts 90

    Wit,

    You are welcome for clarification

    #1248904
    patrickleung
    Participant
    • Total Posts 90

    wit,

    Is that why Luck Or Design changed to Lucky Nine, Comic Strip to Viva Pataca, Freemantle to Straight Forward and Kalaman to Oriental Magic, amongst others, when they were purchased from here to run in Hong Kong?

    Yeats,

    Let me try giving you an answer for this.

    HKJC allows owners to give both Chinese and English names. Obviously, it is much easier to handle Chinese ones. For the english name, HKJC will check with import countries to find out if there is a duplicated name. For example you cannot have an Australian import called Winx or an English import called Postponed.

    For the changes in the English name, it is quite usual for HK owners to give a new name. You may think those owners change the names to show their ownerships. Also some owners use a particular word in the names of their horses. For example, Mr Wong Wing Keung’s horses mostly have “Bullish”.

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/ownersearch.asp?horseowner=Wong%20Wing%20Keung

    #1248951
    pearlspring
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2

    I absolutely agree that Hong Kong should not be allowed to change horses’ names. The UNIVERSAL rule should be: once a horse has had its first run, its name cannot then be changed.

    #1248952
    pearlspring
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2

    The worst example of a name being allowed is surely Percy’s Lass. She is by Sir Percy, whose dam was also called Percy’s Lass!! How on earth did the authorities allow the name to be used again? As an old-timer, I have also been dismayed to see duplications of names of former stallions: i.e High Treason, Orchestra, Whistler. With the HUGE number of available name, there is no justification for using a name that has previously carried with distinction.

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