[Zoso]

Zoso,
This is getting quite ridiculous, claiming Nowhere ‘Value’ at 1/5. If your betting strategy is about finding winners, good for you, but you really shouldn’t debate a concept you clearly don’t understand

Oh but I do understand it.

WOuld I back Knowhere 1/5 pre race – absolutely not, no way, not even with counterfeit. I would look at that price and think that is ridiculous and I would have to be a layer.

However after the race is finished and Knowhere has ran out a nice winner, then I can say that Knowhere was in fact value at 1/5. He won easily and he won like a 1/5 shot.

Which returns to my original point that too many pundits hide behind the old value line. No value in laying a short price horse that bolts up, no value in backing a big price horse that is unplaced.

[Zoso]

Zozo, with my serious head on………..

If the same field lined up today over the same C&D would you back Knowhere @ 1/5? If not, how was he value at 1/5 before yesterday’s race? If so, then I want to lock you in a room and be your bookmaker.

No I would not back Knowhere if the same field lined up over the same course and distance today then I would not back him at 1/5 (I wont back any horse at 1/5 by the way but that is irrellevant to this arguement).
The reason I would not back him today at 1/5 is because a new factor has just entered the equation. The winner today may be the horse who can take 2 races in consecutive days. It is possible that Knowhere would run flat racing the next day so I would not back him,

If however that race was run again today and Knowhere ended up winning again, then yes Knowhere would have been value in retrospect after the race.

PS – You dont want to be my bookmaker because long term I will cane you good and proper and send you bankrupt. (arrogance an essential ingredient in being a successful punter).

[Zoso]

I think Our Vic does stay, but he wont ‘stay’ that trip at the very very top level.

Any horse can stay any trip. Put Our Vic in the Gold Cup against the best of the best and he will be deemed a non stayer.

Put him at group 2 or group 3 level then I believe he will stay.

Staying is in the perception of the eye of the beholder (sorry if that doesnt make sense I watched The Doors film last night and may be getting carried away).

[Zoso]

Btw, was Nowhere still value at 16/1 or, did the “value” go once the 20/1 was taken?

Knowhere would have been value at 1/5 let alone 16/1 as it won. A winner is value a loser is not.

Knowhere wouldn’t be value at 1/5 on the action replay!
One of them [b:25r5azhw]has[/b:25r5azhw] to get beat one day……….

Yes one of them has to get beat one day. But yesterday was the day that Knowhere would have been value in retrospect at 1/5. If I put £100.00 win on Knowhere at 1/5 then I would have walked away with a profit of £20.00

If you had backed £100 win on any of the other horses at 100/1 then you would have lost £100 regardless of what price you took.

Who got the value in that situation in your opinion? The person who won £20 or the person who lost £100.

One bet was a winner the other was a loser, you can hide behind value all you like, but the person who won £20 is £120 better off than the person who lost.

All bets realistically are based on a persons perception of value pre race. My lays are all based on my opinion that the fav I am laying is underpriced and that I will profit long term this way.

However if any one of my lays wins then my perception of that horse not representing value was clearly wrong and I was mistaken in my judgement of value.

[Zoso]

Basically here, I am playing a bit of devils advocate. I know full well about value and what it is. My main point is that if you pick a 5/1 shot on the basis that it is the value selection and it comes 4th then you simply made a losing bet and you were wrong it was not value. You either picked the winner or you picked the loser. The person who got the value was the person who layed your bet as his account is the one that just got paid.

Of course value exists but I believe it as an overused arguement to hide behind for racing pundits.

Now Im seriously going to condracict myself and say that on the laying side of my betting, all horses I lay are horses that I believe are underpriced. I know that if I lay a horse that is priced too short then even though I know there is a chance that it can win, over a period of time I will be in profit. If over a period of time I am not in a profit then clearly my perception of what is and what isnt value is misguided. These are my lays for January so far, they are all short priced horses that I think are underpriced:

1st-Jan Tramore 12:15 Major Sensation 2.12 11/10 1st £224.00 -£224.00 2pnt Lay
Fairyhouse 12:35 The Ethiopian 1.96 9/10 5th £192.00 -£32.00 2pnt Lay
Exeter 13:15 Onefourfun 2.72 3/1 2nd £96.00 £64.00
Catterick 13:20 Sun King 2.56 10/3 1st £312.00 -£248.00 2pnt Lay
2nd-Jan Wolverhampton 14:55 Shaydreambeliever 3.50 7/2 5th £96.00 -£152.00
Kempton 20:20 Miss Phoebe 3.50 9/4 6th £96.00 -£56.00
3rd-Jan Fontwell 13:15 Nation State 3.45 9/4 3rd £96.00 £40.00
Lingfield 13:35 Pab Special 2.98 2/1 3rd £96.00 £136.00
Thurles 14:15 Siegemaster 1.63 4/7 1st £63.00 £73.00
Fontwell 14:20 Souwester 3.30 3/1 3rd £96.00 £169.00
Fontwell 14:20 Mighty Matters 3.40 11/4 PU £96.00 £265.00
Wolverhampton 19:20 Tiger Spice 3.00 13/8 3rd £192.00 £457.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 19:50 Twist Bookie 2.78 9/4 5th £192.00 £649.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 21:20 Princess Cocoa 3.10 11/8 4th £96.00 £745.00
4th-Jan Southwell 13:10 Valhillen 3.40 9/4 2nd £96.00 £841.00
Lingfield 13:20 Chapoturgeon 3.10 2/1 1st £210.00 £631.00
Southwell 14:10 Hucking Heat 3.15 2/1 1st £215.00 £416.00
Lingfield 14:50 Ballyfitz 3.50 15/8 2nd £96.00 £512.00
Wolverhampton 20:20 Freshmint 3.45 9/4 1st £245.00 £267.00
5th-Jan Lingfield 12:35 Bridgwater Boys 2.74 11/8 1st £174.00 £93.00
Chepstow 12:50 Sobers 3.00 15/8 1st £200.00 -£107.00
Wincanton 13:45 Miss Mitch 1.87 8/11 UR £96.00 -£11.00
Lingfield 14:15 Salt Of The Earth 2.78 5/6 2nd £96.00 £85.00
Wincanton 14:50 Maori Legend 3.25 6/4 1st £225.00 -£140.00
Wincanton 15:55 Oniphlaure 2.26 13/8 2nd £96.00 -£44.00
Kempton 18:50 Mr Napoleon 2.44 EVS 4th £192.00 £148.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 19:20 Grand Strategy 3.40 5/4 1st £240.00 -£92.00
Kempton 19:50 Hit The Roof 2.60 13/8 6th £96.00 £4.00
6th-Jan Naas 13:15 Thyne Again 2.40 6/4 1st £140.00 -£136.00
Plumpton 13:25 it’s a Dream 2.00 5/6 2nd £96.00 -£40.00
Southwell 15:10 Smoothly Does It 2.80 6/4 7th £192.00 £152.00 2pnt Lay
7th-Jan Southwell 12:50 Winthorpe 3.20 2/1 6th £96.00 £248.00
Southwell 14:50 Elusive Warrior 2.44 7/4 3rd £96.00 £344.00
Ludlow 15:00 Merlins Magic 3.00 13/8 PU £96.00 £440.00
Southwell 15:20 Cragganmore Creek 3.15 11/8 3rd £96.00 £536.00
8th-Jan Southwell 12:10 Three Boars 3.05 15/8 1st £205.00 £331.00
Leicester 15:50 Honours Dream 2.68 7/4 1st £336.00 -£5.00 2pnt Lay
9th-Jan Musselburgh 13:10 Sualda 2.32 11/10 5th £192.00 £187.00 2pnt Lay
Lingfield 13:50 Denbra Dancer 2.78 10/11 3rd £96.00 £283.00
Wolverhampton 20:50 Moment Of Clarity 2.56 6/5 7th £192.00 £475.00 2pnt Lay
10th-Jan Southwell 12:40 Chatshow 3.30 2/1 3rd £96.00 £571.00
Southwell 13:10 Calculating 2.32 8/11 1st £132.00 £439.00
Hereford 13:30 Crocodile Rock 1.58 2/5 2nd £192.00 £631.00 2pnt Lay
Southwell 13:40 Copperbottomed 1.89 1/2 3rd £96.00 £727.00
Southwell 15:10 Sweet Pickle 2.30 7/4 2nd £192.00 £919.00 2pnt Lay
Hereford 15:00 Irish Legend 2.72 11/8 2nd £192.00 £1111.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 19:20 Moon Bound 2.50 2/1 3rd £192.00 £1303.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 20:20 My Mate Max 2.60 9/4 2nd £192.00 £1495.00 2pnt Lay
11th-Jan Kelso 14:10 Corlande rule4-2.86 11/8 1st £186.00 £1309.00
Kelso 14:10 Silver Something rule 4-3.25 5/2 2nd £96.00 £1405.00
Wolverhampton 15:30 Wisemans Diamond 3.35 7/4 3rd £96.00 £1501.00
Kempton 18:20 Call Of The Search 1.96 4/6 2nd £192.00 £1793.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 19:20 Mind Alert 3.25 2/1 1st £225.00 £1568.00
12th-Jan Lingfield 13:20 Denbera Dancer 2.34 11/8 4th £192.00 £1760.00 2pnt Lay
Lingfield 14:55 Bonus 2.40 EVS 1st £280.00 £1480.00 2[nt Lay
Kempton 15:15 Panjo Bere 3.30 3/1 6th £96.00 £1576.00
Lingfield 15:25 Evident Pride 2.20 5/6 2nd £192.00 £1768.00 2pnt Lay
Punchestown 15:05 Shady Willow 2.08 8/11 2nd £192.00 £1960.00 2pnt Lay
Warwick 15:30 Cryptic 2.64 7/4 2nd £192.00 £2152.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 15:45 Mister Quasimodo 2.32 5/4 PU £96.00 £2248.00
Wolverhampton 20:50 Steig 2.40 EVS 1st £280.00 £1968.00 2pnt Lay
13th-Jan Kempton 12:45 Salt Of The Earth 1.45 3/10 2nd £288.00 £2256.00 3pnt Lay
Leopardstown 12:50 Wins Now 1.90 8/13 2nd £192.00 £2448.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 15:55 Prince Of Medina 2.34 11/10 5th £192.00 £2640.00 2pnt Lay
14th-Jan Southwell 12:40 Savilles Delight 2.94 7/4 1st £194.00 £2446.00
Fakenham 12:50 Piper Hayes 3.10 5/2 4th £96.00 £2542.00
Southwell 13:10 Fulford 3.15 7/4 4th £96.00 £2638.00
Southwell 13:40 Another Genepri 2.80 5/4 1st £180.00 £2458.00
Fakenham 13:50 Saint Kadette 3.15 5/6 2nd £192.00 £2650.00 2pnt Lay
Southwell 14:40 Safebreaker 2.44 5/4 2nd £96.00 £2746.00
15th-Jan Southwell 13:30 Silver Hotspur 2.80 15/8 1st £360.00 £2386.00 2pnt Lay
Southwell 14:30 Yankee Storm 2.38 11/8 5th £192.00 £2578.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 14:40 Steele Tango 2.70 5/4 1st £340.00 £2238.00 2pnt Lay
Southwell 15:30 Taikoo 1.78 4/5 1st £78.00 £2160.00
Southwell 15:30 Be Free 3.50 2/1 2nd £96.00 £2256.00
Southwell 16:00 Sweet Pickle 2.80 15/8 2nd £192.00 £2448.00 2pnt Lay
16th-Jan Lingfield 13:10 Noble Minstrel 2.86 7/4 1st £186.00 £2262.00
Newcastle 13:30 Bangoe 3.00 5/4 4th £96.00 £2358.00
Newcastle 14:40 Brook No Argument 2.36 5/4 2nd £192.00 £2550.00 2pnt Lay
Lingfield 15:55 Smokin Beau 3.30 4/1 4th £96.00 £2646.00
Kempton 18:20 Avoca Dancer 3.00 15/8 2nd £96.00 £2742.00
Kempton 18:20 Stoneacre Donny 3.25 2/1 6th £96.00 £2838.00
Kempton 18:50 King Of Dixie 2.12 11/10 1st £336.00 £2502.00 3pnt Lay
17th-Jan Southwell 15:00 Diriculous 3.00 6/4 5th £96.00 £2598.00
Nad Al Sheba 16:25 Fiesta Lady 2.76 11/8 1st £352.00 £2246.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 19:20 Tapas Lad 2.96 13/8 1st £196.00 £2050.00
Wolverhampton 19:50 Given A Choice 3.30 11/4 3rd £96.00 £2146.00
Wolverhampton 20:20 Qaasi 1.98 4/5 1st £196.00 £1950.00 2pnt Lay
18th-Jan Catterick 12:40 Monash Lad 1.91 5/6 5th £192.00 £2142.00 2pnt Lay
Wolverhampton 15:30 Pacifism 2.76 2/1 2nd £192.00 £2334.00 2pnt Lay
Kempton 18:20 Savilles Delight 2.30 5/4 2nd £192.00 £2526.00 2pnt Lay

[Zoso]

If Exotic Dancer does turn up at Cheltenham and beats Kauto Star then it means my judgement was wrong and I would hold my hands up and move onto my next bet.
Of course I can and will be wrong on many occasions but I will only back a horse that I believe can win (or place at profitable odds).

[Zoso]

Some interesting stuff here, Zoso.

I thought your spreadsheet was very good, but I’m surprised you are not looking for another EW opportunity in the Gold Cup.

What do you think of my EW bet on Exotic Dancer?

Pretty silly , I suppose, as he may not run.

I will not make a call on a race til the day of the race. So many things can happen in between. Ask me on the day what I think of Exotic Dancer and I will be able to tell you. I would say that Kauto Star clearly has the beating of Exotic Dancer and therefor I could not back Exotic Dancer as a place is the best he can hope for without Kauto Star falling. I could still look for an e/w alternative to Kauto Star but it would have to be a selection that I believe can finish 2nd or 3rd and return a good profit for doing so, ie a horse at 12/1 + as it will pay 4/1 on the place side and be a profitable worthwhile bet. If you got 12/1 + on Exotic Dancer then at this stage (pre the doubts as to wether he will run or not) I could see that as being a sound bet.

[Zoso]

Is the same Zoso who started a thread about Quizzene saying it was 4/1 and should have been 4/6, but was still happy with the bet after the horse had been beaten because it was an excellent price.

Or do we have two people on here using the same tagline?

AP

I am always happy with my bets- win, lose or draw. If I wasnt happy with my bets beforehand then I would not have placed them, my happiness is a result of me being pleased and satisfied with my reason for backing the horse. I am not the type of person who selects a bet and then blames all and sundry when it does not win. I thought 4/1 was a great price as I thought the horse would be the winner. I was wrong it was not the winner therefor I did not get value. I dont expect to win with every bet and I know that I will be wrong on many occasions.
If I was not happy with my bet after the race had finished regardless of the result then why the hell did I put the bet on in the first place. Quizzene was a horse that was almost impossible to keep out of the places so 4/1 was a decent price. It was an e/w bet and it got 2nd. Why would I not be happy with that?

Value is an excuse to hide behind.

[Zoso]

Anyway you don’t back Kauto Star at 1/25 even though you think it’s going to win? Why?

Also what is your price range for backing it? Such as 1/2 – 2/1 or whatever?

I dont back Kauto Star at 1/25 as I have no interest in winning £4 for the risk of £100.00

If I think Kauto Star will win then that is the only horse I could possibly back. If the price is stupidly short then I simply leave the race alone, I dont find an alternative.

The price I would back it, would depend on how strongly I fancied it and how much of a certainty I thought it was. If I thought it was a cast iron certainty then I would happily back it at 1/2.

[Zoso]

Btw, was Nowhere still value at 16/1 or, did the "value" go once the 20/1 was taken?

Knowhere would have been value at 1/5 let alone 16/1 as it won. A winner is value a loser is not.

[Zoso]

Zoso, lets assume you fancy Kauto Star for the Gold Cup.

I make a book of:

1/25 Kauto Star
50/1 the field

Win bets only.

What do you do?

edit: only 1 bet… can’t just back 10 horses at 50/1

Thats the one time when value becomes a logical arguement. Kauto Star is underpriced at 1/25 even though I think he will win. I can choose to have no bet as although I think the horse will win, the price is simply too short. I agree with not backing a horse that you think will win if you believe the price is too short (thats not to say I cant back an 8/11 shot if I think he should be a 1/2 shot). In terms of e/w betting though I select the horse that I think will win. If the horse was trading at 1/25 then I would not spend any time studying form for that race and would move instantly onto another market in search of my bet. A winner has to have found value and a loser has to have not found value. Profit or loss is the be all and end all.

In reality though you back Denman at 50/1 surely?

No. I never back a horse that I dont think will win regardless of what price it is.

By your arguement. You must back every single outsider on Betfair. After all a horse that is priced 100/1 with a bookmaker may be trading at 300.0 on betfair. Therefor you surely back every single outsider that is markedly bigger than the bookmakers price as they must be value.

I would only back that outsider if I actually thought it could win.

[Zoso]

Zoso, lets assume you fancy Kauto Star for the Gold Cup.

I make a book of:

1/25 Kauto Star
50/1 the field

Win bets only.

What do you do?

edit: only 1 bet… can’t just back 10 horses at 50/1

Thats the one time when value becomes a logical arguement. Kauto Star is underpriced at 1/25 even though I think he will win. I can choose to have no bet as although I think the horse will win, the price is simply too short. I agree with not backing a horse that you think will win if you believe the price is too short (thats not to say I cant back an 8/11 shot if I think he should be a 1/2 shot). In terms of e/w betting though I select the horse that I think will win. If the horse was trading at 1/25 then I would not spend any time studying form for that race and would move instantly onto another market in search of my bet. A winner has to have found value and a loser has to have not found value. Profit or loss is the be all and end all.

[Zoso]

This is the spreadsheet of my e/w bets in 2008 (need to update 19th Jan to present day). Now you can all go on about value as much as you like, but my bets are selected by extensive form study. The selection I go with is the horse I think will win as a result of my form study. For any bet where I did not back a winner or get a place then that bet was no value whatsoever. For every bet that won or got placed then that bet was value. The horse that I think will win the race has to be in my opinion value, but it all comes back to winner or loser, if I backed a loser then the selection was clearly not value no matter how you may try and dress it up.
The shortest priced horse I backed was 100/30 and the biggest priced horse was 66/1. On my e/w bets I judge them on winning and losing and if I am showing a profit at the end of a period then I am doing good. If I am showing a loss at the end of a period then I am doing bad. I dont need to make myself feel better at the end of a losing month by saying oh well I lost this month but at least I know my picks were value. If its a losing month I just say "oh well its a losing month and I know full well that losing months will happen but as long as I have more winning months than I do losing months then I will win long term". Value is an excuse to hide behind in my opinion. Results and profit/loss is the be all and end all not value. You will make a profit long term by selecting horses that win races not by selecting losers that you have convinced yourself are ‘value’.

1st-Jan Cheltenham 14:45 Oscar Park 5/1 4/1 9th £200.00 -£200.00 1pnt E/W
Catterick 15:00 Flake 5/1 4/1 1st £312.50 £112.50 1/2pnt E/W
Cheltenham 15:25 Blazing Bailey 7/1 11/2 1st £437.50 £550.00 1/2pnt E/W
2nd-Jan Folkestone 12:30 Brilliant Lad 9/1 8/1 PU £100.00 £450.00 1/2pnt E/W
Folkestone 13:30 Symbosis 33/1 25/1 4th £50.00 £400.00 1/4pnt E/W
Ayr 13:40 Calin Royal 18/1 11/1 6th £50.00 £350.00 1/4pnt E/W
Ayr 14:45 Villon 4/1 5/1 2nd £20.00 £330.00 1pnt E/W
Ayr 14:45 Master Sebastian 5/1 7/2 1st £600.00 £930.00 1pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 14:55 Looks The Business 5.5 7/2 1st £450.00 £1380.00 1pnt WIN
Wolverhampton 14:55 Atlantic Gamble 6.0 10/3 4th £100.00 £1280.00 1pnt WIN
3rd-Jan Fontwell 14:20 Randwick Roar 14/1 8/1 6th £200.00 £1080.00 1pnt E/W
Fontwell 14:20 Im Supreme 9/1 5/1 5th £200.00 £880.00 1pnt E/W
Fontwell 15:25 Strolling Vagabond 11/2 11/2 PU £200.00 £680.00 1pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 19:20 Twosheetstothewind 20/1 18/1 4th £50.00 £630.00 1/4pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 19:50 Beauchamp Turbo 25/1 25/1 7th £50.00 £580.00 1/4pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 21:20 Lopinot 10/1 8/1 6th £100.00 £480.00 1/2pnt E/W
4th-Jan Southwell 13:10 Her Name Is Rio 5/1 7/1 7th £200.00 £280.00 1pnt E/W
Lingfield 14:50 Stolen Moments 12/1 7/1 3rd £140.00 £420.00 1pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 19:50 Compton Classic 8.0 15/2 1st £350.00 £770.00 1/2pnt WIN
Wolverhampton 21:20 Tanforan 12/1 12/1 2nd £70.00 £840.00 1/2pnt E/W
5th-Jan Sandown 13:00 Ceoperk 66/1 20/1 3rd £50.00 £790.00 1/4pnt E/W
Sandown 14:05 Hasty Prince 10/1 7/1 2nd £75.00 £865.00 3/4pnt E/W
Sandown 14:05 Bleu Superb 18/1 20/1 5th £150.00 £715.00 3/4pnt E/W
Wincanton 15:20 Spring Lover 6/1 7/1 PU £100.00 £615.00 1/2pnt E/W
Wincanton 15:55 Carlylon Bay 15/2 5/1 PU £100.00 £515.00 1/2pnt E/W
Kempton 18:50 Double Spectre 25/1 33/1 9th £100.00 £415.00 1/2pnt E/W
Kempton 19:20 Finmore Queen 10/1 11/1 2nd £100.00 £515.00 1pnt E/W
Kempton 19:50 Waterline Twenty 4/1 4/1 2nd £0 £0 £515.00 1pnt E/W
6th-Jan Southwell 13:40 Put It On The Card 20/1 20/1 10th £200.00 £315.00 1pnt E/W
Southwell 14:40 Speed Dial Harry 8/1 11/1 4th £200.00 £115.00 1pnt E/W
Southwell 15:10 Nimmello 8/1 9/1 2nd £60.00 £175.00 1pnt E/W
7th-Jan Southwell 13:20 Flores Sea 12.0 4/1 4th £100.00 £75.00 1pnt Win
Southwell 13:20 Figaro Flyer 9.2 3/1 5th £100.00 -£25.00 1pnt Win
Taunton 15:10 Wizard Of Edge 4.0 9/4 3rd £100.00 -£125.00 1pnt Win
Taunton 15:10 Jaloux Destruval 8.2 17/2 2nd £100.00 -£225.00 1pnt Win
8th-Jan Leicester 13:20 Snifina 6/1 9/2 3rd £20.00 -£205.00 1/2pnt E/W
Leicester 14:50 Bormo 13/2 11/2 3rd £30.00 -£175.00 1/2pnt E/W
Leicester 15:20 High Tech Made 6/1 11/2 5th £100.00 -£275.00 1/2pnt E/W
9th-Jan Lingfield 13:50 North South Divide 7/2 7/2 2nd £45.00 -£320.00 1 1/2pnt E/W
Kempton 16:00 Red Wine 16/1 12/1 7th £100.00 -£420.00 1/2pnt E/W
10th-Jan Hereford 13:30 Cooldine 9/2 7/1 8th £200.00 -£620.00 1pnt E/W
11th-Jan Kelso 14:10 Oliverjohn 14/1 12/1 4th £200.00 -£820.00 1pnt E/W
Kempton 20:50 Spring Goddess 9/2 7/2 4th £200.00 -£1020.00 1pnt E/W
12th-Jan Warwick 14:00 Brave Villa 11/1 9/1 6th £100.00 -£1120.00 1/2pnt E/W
Warwick 14:30 Trust Fund 8/1 10/1 PU £200.00 -£1320.00 1pnt E/W
Warwick 14:30 Dargent 25/1 18/1 1st £1500.00 £180.00 1/2pnt E/W
Warwick 15:30 Ballyshan 15/2 5/1 1st £900.00 £1080.00 1pnt E/W
Warwick 15:30 Buena Vista 10/1 14/1 4th £200.00 £880.00 1pnt W/W
Wolverhampton 20:50 Art Historian 12/1 11/1 10th £200.00 £680.00 1pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 20:50 Niqaab 10/3 9/2 2nd £34.00 £646.00 1pnt E/W
13th-Jan Kempton 12:45 Wherry 6/1 7/1 6th £200.00 £446.00 1pnt E/W
Kempton 12:45 Kaystar Ridge 20/1 14/1 8th £100.00 £346.00 1/2pnt E/W
Leopardstown 12:50 Mick Finan 40/1 25/1 FELL £100.00 £246.00 1/2pnt E/W
14th-Jan Fakenham 15:20 New Perk 8/1 10/1 4th £200.00 £46.00 1pnt E/W
15th-Jan Southwell 14:30 Only A Game 16/1 10/1 1st £1000.00 £1046.00 1/2pnt E/W
Kempton 14:40 Michaels Boy 12/1 12/1 3rd £70.00 £1116.00 1/2pnt E/W
16th-Jan Newcastle 12:30 Ems Royalty 9/1 12/1 7th £100.00 £1016.00 1/2pnt E/W
Newcastle 12:30 Pelo Du Bief 20/1 10/1 1st £1250.00 £2266.00 1/2pnt E/W
Lingfield 14:50 Art Man 9/1 7/1 1st £1080.00 £3346.00 1pnt E/W
Kempton 18:20 King Of Charm 10/1 8/1 3rd £50.00 £3396.00 1/2pnt E/W
Kempton 21:20 Underfire 15/2 6/1 4th £100.00 £3296.00 1/2pnt E/W
17th-Jan Southwell 14:30 Dickie Le Davoir 7/1 11/2 4th £100.00 £3196.00 1/2pnt E/W
Southwell 15:00 Bentley 7.60 9/2 2nd £100.00 £3096.00 1pnt Win
Southwell 15:00 Egyptian Lord 8.40 10/1 8th £100.00 £2996.00 1pnt Win
Nad Al Sheba 17:05 Familiar Territory 13/2 4/1 2nd £62.50 £3058.50 1pnt E/W
Nad Al Sheba 18:05 Vortex 11/1 10/1 7th £100.00 £2958.50 1/2pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 19:20 Maddison County 20/1 25/1 8th £100.00 £2858.00 1/2pnt E/W
Wolverhampton 20:20 Little Firecracker 20/1 16/1 7th £100.00 £2758.00 1/2pnt E/W
18th-Jan Catterick 12:40 Martin House 11/1 11/1 2nd £60.00 £2818.00 1/2pnt E/W
Catterick 13:10 Chef De Cour 10/3 3/1 3rd £34.00 £2784.00 1 1/2pnt E/W
Catterick 15:20 Fencote Gold 11/2 13/2 PU £200.00 £2584.00 1pnt E/W
Catterick 15:20 Loch Osaig 9/2 4/1 1st £540.00 £3124.00 1pnt E/W
Kempton 19:50 Takaamul 14/1 10/1 1st £1680.00 £4804.00 1pnt E/W

[Zoso]

Our Vic doesnt stay, simple as that, just found nothing after the last and full credit to Knowhere, he jumped the last really well and powdered on up the hill.

Is that a cheeky reference to a certain flat jockey.

[Zoso]

More to the point, who are those 2 jockeys in 2nd and 3rd. Remind me not to back that pair. They seem more interested in posing for the camera than concentrating on the race.

[Zoso]

I’m gutted. Pricewise has tipped up Madison Du Berlais.

I wont let that put me off my bet but I was hoping for a drift this morning.

[Zoso]

Relax Zoso.

Colin is old and Welsh.

I think that says it all.

OK.. I understand it now.

[Author]

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