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I think you can’t really blame the jockey when his mount drifts so alarmingly in the betting.
He was given instructions which he probably followed to the letter. I personally think the way the Kingsbarns and Johann Strauss ran was embarrassing for the industry as a whole. Had it been a smaller trainer they would no doubt be hauled infront of stewards and probably banned or fined.
Anyone backing Ballydoyle horses at this time of year knows the risks involved with doing so. The races that the two horses in question have run have probably put them spot on for later and bigger targets. The days that really matter to the operation.
Joseph has a remarkably old head on young shoulders, he shows no signs of the pressures he is under, with keeping his weight under control and holding down one of the biggest and most challenging jobs in racing. Everybody makes mistakes and that can only be expected as we are all human.
Ballydoyle would not still be using him if he wasn’t up to the job.
Am I right in thinking that Warren Place has been rather successful under Lady Cecil’s aegis? I suppose 24th isn’t that high. But imagine if she’d been all together unsuccessful, the complaints there’d be! I was surrprised at how well the stable had fared after the great man’s demise. Of course, it would have been a team effort, but the gaffer had to ‘know her onions’.
There’s a lot of envy at the nepotism in the industry, but as nepotism goes, it’s innocuous and doubtless is often successful. Poor old Joseph O’Brien is on a hiding to nothing. I bet young Joe’s some horseman and as subtle a tactician as his experience would allow – which former might not be inconsiderable, since he was probably riding horses from junior school.
It reminds me of a satirical item in a newspaper. A certain public figure disappointed his detractors in the press, so the next byline was ‘So-and-o can’t walk on water.’
In any case, I think the principals at Ballydoyle are far too hard-headed to have kept him riding their horses in Group 1 races, from sentiment. They didn’t get where they are, to borrow from CJ in the epic of he esteemed Reggie Perrin (who an aunt said I reminded her of). Young Spencer moved on, when it became clear that the inscrutable workings of divine providence saw fit to have him excel elsewhere, instead.
I couldn’t agree more with this post. I think that the industry can be very quick to judge. I am looking forward to seeing how Lady Cecil gets on this year. I wouldn’t be making any strong judgements before then. It will be interesting the strength and depths of her 2yo horses this season, as they will not have had the full input of the legend, Sir Henry, himself.
My prediction is that she will do rather well, she obviously has a very good team around her and must have a great knowledge of training racehorses. It must be difficult for her as she is on a hiding to nothing, if she developed a top class horse, there will always be those on the sidelines saying "Henry would have done a better job" and if she doesn’t produce winners she is written off by people saying she is no good. I hope she has a great season and bags a few Group 1 victories to silence the doubters.
On the comments about Joseph I also agree, he is no mug. Ballydoyle do not take the sentimental approach and Joseph is a top class horseman who I think is fully deserving of the job. Many can not contemplate the stresses that he must be under, plenty of experienced and world class jockeys struggled to make it work there and although he has his faults he is still there and going strong.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ … 6073892021
The article I was refering to in my previous post. It has actually warmed me to the horse. I thought it was one of them horses that you would never be able to back, going off at 2-13, 1-7 and 4-11… It was nice to get some 13-8 this time around.
Aidan will have him right!
Personally, I believe Aidan O’Brien and I do not believe that the horse was fully tuned up at Ascot. I read an article 2 days before the race in which O’Brien said exactly what he said in the post race interview. This mainly consisted of "The horse has not been stepped up in his work I see no reason why he should be putting another 20l between himself and his work partners".
I think that SYT is an absoloute freak of a horse and the comments I have heard about the horse makes it seem as though this is a different kind of horse to any they have had at Ballydoyle for a while.
I know that Coolmore tend to over hype they’re horses but I genuinely believe they thought this horse was so good that he could win a Group 1 at Royal Ascot barely 3/4 fit.
I cannot wait to watch the race and I have made an investment on SYT this week as I think that his price with contract up to the race day and see him going off odds on before the race. If he does win the Eclipse you can be fairly certain you will never see odds against about this horse for the rest of its career. You can forgive a horse one bad race.
Does anybody have any clue who will be riding him yet? I know people are assuming Ryan Moore will be riding Workforce but has he actually come out in the press that he is definately taking that ride? Of the remainder I would like to see either Jamie Spencer given a go, or maybe even his old jockey Steve Arnold. I wouldn’t like to see Fallon on the horse personally.
I foresee a Zafonic like Dewhurst win of ’92. A race which can be viewed on YouTube.
I have just watched the race, after watching his Guineas romp I see Frankel winning like that. With Dream Ahead taking the place of Barathea
You’re actually taking offence at people wishing to discuss Frankel’s potential for improvement next year in a thread that effectively revolves around him and one other horse?
Jeez.
I’m not taking offence to it, it just seems they are saying these are chinks in his armour when it has nothing to do with the Dewhurst. Nobody can fault Frankel or put him down on his performances so far, so they say hes beat nothing, then his times and rating prove them wrong.
So they say Dream Ahead is far better, we will see on the day
I have considered sitting on the sides and let feeble arguments take place but I can’t just stand and stare anymore.
Please refrain from bringing Frankel down by even mentioning anything further away than this coming Sunday. If you wish to slate the horse about what he will do next year, make a thread up about it. The title of this thread is "DEWHURST STAKES". So why is everybody rambling on about if he will stay the Derby? All I am focussing on is the 7f infront of him on Saturday.
I think that this horse is getting better with each gallop he does and if anyone cares to look at the RP Website and watches the feature with Tony Elves he leaves you in no doubt about the horses well being. I just wish I could find out who his gallop partner is.
In my opinion the race will develop around the 2.5f mark.. Saamidd will be off the bridle and Frankie will be driving him along and I think Dream Ahead will be cruising. There will be a moments doubt when Queally pushes the Nitro button on Frankel but he will start to show his turn of foot and accelerate away. William Buick will now respond by giving Dream Ahead a push and I think by now with under 2 furlongs left to travel Buick wont be finding alot, and you have to remember Dream Ahead will most probably be drifiting across the track aswell.
So with 1.5f to go we will have Queally driving Frankel clear by 2l Buick drifiting across the course in second and Saamidd going back to the stragglers a further 3l behind. I think as Frankel has proven his stamina he will draw away to the line.
If he does indeed win by more than 5l you will all have to bow your heads in shame. How can you go against a horse who has never truely been extended, and side with a horse which hasnt even tackled the distance before and drifts across the track at 6f??
The only doubt that one could have about Frankel is that when Queally gets serious with the horse he may have to give him a smack, and Frankel has never been hit before.
Racing is a great sport because everyone can have an opinion. I am siding with Fist and I think we will be proven to be correct. No doubt when he does win the Dewhurst and wins well you will all jump on the "He will not train on" bandwagon or the "He will never stay the Derby" bandwagon. Although by reading some of the comments on here you already have prebooked tickets. Enjoy the ride
I actually agree with you Fist. Personally I think he could have won the QEII when he ran at Ascot, and I mean every single character I have typed.
This is a proper horse. I have never seen him come off the bridle, bar his maiden when arfter 6 or 7 pushes he came straight back on the bit.
I think that Saamid is not an exceptional colt, but nevertheless a top class performer. I think that Dream Ahead is a soft ground lover and he beat a group of highly talented good to firm ground horses on soft ground last time out.
I think Frankel at 8/11 was possibly the best bet I have ever seen. I have filled up my boots, pockets, socks and puffer jacket with money on Frankel. This IS the next coming, this IS one of the greats, this IS Frankel-ly the best horse I think I have ever seen and ever will see.
I will probably come in for a lot of criticism for this post but in time it will be proven to be correct. I have never in my life seen a horse who bounds clear and you can tell he is absoloutley loving it. He seems to really enjoy being extended and I think its lovely to see a top quality horse pushed to the line, well done Tom Queally for that.
My prediction is an 8l plus rout of a good Dewhurst field. I am even making my first visit to Newmarket to see this freak in the flesh. I just pray to the gods, saints and martyrs that this horse turns up in the Dewhurst in good form and runs his race.
Going back in my cave until saturday, have a lovely week.
So who is taking the 8/11 for Frankel in the Dewhurst?
Personally I think only an act of god will stop Frankel winning, if he turns up on the day fit and well he cannot get beat.
If Dream Ahead doesn’t run (Which I beleive he probably will not) Frankel wil start at 2/7.
Biggest bet I have ever had. Is he DEFINATELY running in the Dewhurst?
Personally, I cannot see past Youmzain. He looks a solid each way bet. I think Richard Hughes gets the best out of horses and Mr Channon has realised this (Think Music Show).
The form that Mr Stoute is in is the worry with his two horses and I would probably back Harbinger had Ryan Moore chosen to ride him. But how can Ryan Moore get off of the horse that won him his first Epsom Derby? Thinking more with his heart than his head I reckon.
I am not touching an O’Brien horse until the autumn as his horses are up and down like the proverbial whores drawers! Dar Re Mi has been disapointing since her trip to Dubai (Not the first horse to win there to have a terrible season).
With the 8 runners I think that Youmzain will be solid as a rock. I think he boiled over at Epsom and didn’t run his usual race. I think he ran back to his best, which he usually does when getting a new jockey on board for the first time.
Nothing spectacular but and each way punt on Youmzain looks to be the best chance of getting a return in this race. Harbinger is still improving I feel and has had a cracking season. I think he is the danger, and could well win the race!
I’ve had a look and there is nothing for Saturday’s racing as of yet. But I find this page very imformative. It is official and will tell you the excuses that the trainers or jockeys give.
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/about/whatwedo/disciplinary/whyranbadly.asp
(Hope I have posted the link correctly.)
Good Luck
See that is why I complimented Mr Cattermole, I don’t want it to come across as though I am slagging him off.
This is half the reason I hardly post on here.
Just to say quickly, I like Mr Cattermole and I think that he is a great commentator and reporter. I just think they aren’t using his skills as well as they could.
I also think the same of Mrs Spencer. They make a good team when presenting during the racing, just not in the morning.
I have also just realised I have completely contradicted myself with the Chappers comment. Maybe I am asking for too much.
Emma Spencer annoys me too. What does she bring to the party??………..absolutely nothing!!
A pretty face and ……
No idea of form.
YM,
Surely the reason why you are seeing Emma, Tom, Nick etc. because they are looking for new, younger people.
Yet you want to bring back McCrirrick and Francome?
They want educated people. What’s wrong with university?
If Lord Snooty knows his stuff, then he should be there.Personally, I don’t think young people want to see Cattermole and Spencer flirting, Luck taunting Lee and then comparing himself to looking like a politician.
I thought when the election was over Luck and his similarly annoying mate from ladbrokes exchanging public school banter saying they look like George and David would finally be over. But it seems not..WHO CARES!
I like Mr Cattermoles presenting as he is refreshing. But I prefer him in the role of roving reporter, not tipster. Emma is very good at the similar role. I do like her but I don’t see the point of her tipping horses. They need a decent tipster and someone with a solid form perspective who isn’t afraid to give a few winners!
I feel McGrath’s analytical skills are pretty good, but whenever he has a horse running, he says nothing whatsoever. I also like Tanya for this. She has a real feel for the markets, knows what she is talking about and sticks to her convictions about big priced horses who sometimes go in. At the moment, if they aren’t in the first three in the betting its as though they aren’t running.
GT, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with people that know their stuff but I would like them to talk about racing, rather than taunting co presenters as Himself mentioned. Young people associate racing with McCririck. Best thing they could do, is get a young flamboyant presenter such as Chappers to present, as I find him funny and on the same level of analytical skills as Cattermole and Luck.
Now a bland, clicky, poorly produced racing program, where the presenters spend more time giving banter to each other and telling each other personal jokes.
I struggled to get through it this morning. Gone are the days when they actually discussed the racing in detail. I do not understand why they are showing a poor card at Newmarket today when most of the target audience will be tuned into Royal Ascot, then cannot show key Derby trials earlier in the season.
Racing For Change no doubt have something to do with it. Bring back McCririck, Graham, Francombe and Down.
Even the phone link with Barry Dennis was poor. I wonder why nobody new will get into racing, and then you watch drivel like that and think it was a personal members club.
I know I will probably get slated for this post but it has really got on my nerves. Before anybody says I am a Brian and not a Ben, I am a 20 year old male and therefore I am surely what RFC are looking to appeal to.
Yet they want to recruit people my age that attend university, never the working class man such as myself. My friends and girlfriend cannot understand what I see in horse racing and see it as a boring sport which I am only focussing on because I am an addictive gambler. Racing needs to shrug off this stereotype and make television that appeals to the masses, not just those 4 or 5 sitting in the studio.
Irish Stewards must be on holiday at the moment.. Poor Ronan Whelan probably got the blame again!
It seems a silly thing to say with St Nicholas Abbey only ever having ran over a mile but I am
extremely confident that he will win the Derby
. I think the further he goes the better he will be. I think that he will probably be back at some stage over 1m 2f and perhaps even 1m to prove he is "As good as Sea The Stars" (In my opinion this is rubbish, the latter being one of the best horses I am likely to see.)
The fact after two derby trial winners O’Brien is still siding with this horse should be a hint in itself. I do, however, feel the
value has gone now and would not touch a fraction below 7/2
.
Am a bit confused MickIf you are "extremely confident that he will win the Derby", why would you "not touch a fraction below 7/2"?
7/2 = 22%. If you are extremely confident, then presumably you believe St Nich has a far better chance than 22%?
St Nich deserves to be favourite, whether he deserves to be as short as he is is debatable. There must be a possibility he’s best on a soft surface, and that has to be allowed for in any value assessment.
Apologies, the point I was putting across is at this precise moment in time I think that 7/2 is a fair price. That includes the risk that he will get to Epsom, Johnny Murtagh riding him, the chance of him getting the ground he likes, Aidan O’Brien to be anywhere near form. There are a lot of risks to think about. I also used that exact price because that is the price I have on him. If I didn’t have a bet on him at the moment I would wait until the day. Then he could have a much higher percentage chance of winning.
Hope that makes sense, If he turns up on the day in good form with O’Brien’s string back in form, he gets the softer surface and Johnny is riding I will take a lot shorter.
