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I first met John many years ago when he was with Timeform, working on their computer time figures and can vouch for the integrity of his approach, via Racing Research. The methodology used to derive the ratings for horses and jockeys, in comparison with other readily-available sources, remains innovative.
Wallace, your comments about seemingly outdated presentation may have some validity but I suspect that John is happy with the way things are.
On the positive side, at least such events will ultimately bring some variety to the flavours of Pedigree Chum.
Spot-on guys as usual – yes we do the “close-up” comments from the course press-room
Is that the case for every meeting? I’ve noticed that, for example, not all meetings carry a description of the weather and wondered if that indicated that comments were being produced ‘remotely’.
Characters? John McCririck, Derek Thompson, Matt Chapman… how many do you want?
I did refer to self publicists in my original post! Taking the opportunity to appear in front of the camera at every opportunity, speak in a loud voice or to maximise personal revenue via telephone tipping services do not, in my opinion, qualify the aforementioned as characters – please reflect and compare with those mentioned in my short list.
As for ‘characters’ I am not sure how you define it – for instance Lester for all his ability in the saddle can hardly string a worthwhile sentence together.
And what a sour view of humanity you seem to have. Lester may have suffered from deafness and failed to achieve an Oxbridge education but his possession of character, be it expressed through displays of single-mindnedness or in other ways cannot be denied. I suggest that you read his biography, or better still speak to someone within racing who had direct contact with Lester.
Superb ride by Thornton. Man and beast together in such harmony it could have been a Centaur!.
What an insult. Surely the suggested human contributor possesses the stylistic aspirations of a donkey!
I agree, a wonderful result from the human interest perspective but tarnished by Thornton’s actions. Once again, though, racing isn’t unique in this context. Deliberate attempts by football or rugby players, for example, to injure other human beings do not present a visually attractive image and yet these sports continue to thrive, such incidents being (for the most part) soon forgotten. That is not to say, however, that these actions are acceptable. From the racing perspective I’m not sure that banning the use of whips is a good idea but once rules that are deemed to be acceptable are transgressed, shouldn’t the punishment fit the crime? Disqualification of the winner and a lengthy ban for the individual involved, perhaps with some enforced time spent re-training at a riding school combined with an equivalent of community service – helping those new to the industry improve their skills or aiding less privileged youngsters – might help (as opposed to a holiday in a warm climate).
Then again, perhaps we’ve all gone too soft…
I’ve got loads of memories of the place, stood around one of the braziers that they used to put out when it was freezing
Yes they really were great days at Haydock, remember the braziers well and meetings with the likes of ‘Rummy’, Silver Buck and Night Nurse, etc., on show. As you say, there was the tipster who laid his photos out for all to see and some of the meetings attracted a chap who paraded outside with a sandwich board on which were chalked religious slogans for the benefit of the ‘sinners’. Saw Phill Bull there one day backing the Sangster horse, Arapahos, in a 3YO maiden and there was a Newmarket-based trainer, Ian Walker, who always did well at the track – if I remember rightly he landed a seller on one occasion with a 33/1 shot, Lend An Ear, owned by the actor Wilfred Hyde-White.
Even in those days, some of the evening and Saturday meetings seemed to attract their fair share of p**sheads and, not surprisingly, it sounds as if things have got worse. However, the track is not unique in this context. On the back of a Friday evening meeting at Chester about 3 or 4 years ago and the horrific experience of Royal Ascot at York I doubt whether I’ll ever attend a race meeting of that nature again. Sadly, the jolly marketing boys & girls will do their damndest to chase the drink and drug fuelled dollar – the rest of us and, ultimately, the sport finish a poor second.
Wouldn’t the ‘intermediate’ maiden, for horses that have had 2 unplaced runs in ‘open’ maidens provide another weakness in the system, open to abuse? In this scenario it’s not hard to envisage horses being given 2 quiet runs down the field in an open race, perhaps over an unsatisfactory distance, followed by a cosy win in an intermediate, with the drop in class, etc., offering a ready-made excuse for the trainer.
Going back to my younger days, favourite moments were provided by some wonderful members of the opposite sex – manly equine. Allez France, Pawneese, Flying Water, Dahlia, Rose Bowl, not to mention a young lady on a non-corridor train from Waterloo to Ascot on Diamond Day! Add into the mix Grundy v Bustino, Bright Highway in the Hennessey, Crisp, Grand Canyon, Sea Pigeon, the list goes on…
In more recent times, seeing Ouija Board going on to fulfil her potential and maintain such a high performance standard throughout her career was wonderful.
Finally, anytime that Scallywag (tr. Bruce Hobbs) stepped onto a racecourse.
Correct. And I’d take his jumps speed-figures with a huge pinch of salt.
Not just his jumps figures. Must have a soild combination of brass neck and leather hide to put such rubbish into print. Guess the money must help, too.
John Cherry might have failed to ‘deliver’ over the jumps but was a good stayer on the flat and a character into the bargain – one of my favourite HT Jones horses; if I remember correctly, Sweet Joe was in the same ownership. At the end of the day,what a trainer!
Tell you what mate next time anyone asks me anything instead of explaining my reasons for not knowing something or thinking something. I’ll tell them to mind thier own fookin business………or maybe a I have a better idea if you don’t like my posts don’t read them………..Idiot
Better still, FOF, if you can’t take the criticism, or can’t resist posting the puerile and boring rubbish that prompted your response, why not take your posts somewhere else – perhaps you can learn to spell or type properly in the meantime.
Scallywag – UK horse racing is very much a ‘brand’ and in today’s marketplace the most successful brands are those that market themselves most effectively. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.
That maybe your opinion but speaking from personal experience, the narrow-minded promotion of marketing mantras that render everything down to a lowest common denominator, by those who have no practical experience in or understanding of the arena in which they are operating, is prone to diverting thought, time and money away from dealing with core roots and principles. If you think that doesn’t apply here, just take some time out to think about the avenue that horse racing has been steered down by those obsessed with ‘brand’. Quite a mess, in my opinion, from whichever side of the fence of you happen to sit on and one that won’t be solved by spending an afternoon sticking yellow post-it notes on the wall.
Sponsorship is probably the key, if a brand is tarnished, the major sponsors will stay away, there are exceptions of course, but big companies prefer ‘safe’ associations.
And in the use of that simple little word ‘brand’ you have, to my mind, hit a good many of the nails that are racing’s problems squarely on the head. Once an industry has been infiltrated by the ‘marketing gurus’, who regurgitate a mantra that has been drummed into them at the nation’s finest polytechnics (universities my a**e) then the lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum. As in so many other cases, horse racing is not a ‘product’, it is not a tin of baked beans, a shoe, or a widget, it is a unique experience or adventure and should be dealt with as such and cherished by all participants.
Where there is money to be made, be it from betting or in other ways, someone will always seek to take advantage, by means fair or foul. In the sporting arena, horse racing is hardly unique in this context – football, cricket, tennis, etc., all come under suspicion. This may be of concern for the governing body of any given sport but, in the long run, does Joe Public give a fig? Will the attendance for next year’s Epsom Derby suffer as a result of this court case? Will crowds at Wimbledon or the 2012 Olympics be diminished by public apathy engendered by betting or doping scandals?
The answer is no. If serious attempts to defraud those who wish to engage in betting or sporting competition are uncovered and proven, then such cases should be dealt with by the relevant authorities. Of more concern to me here, however, is the large amount of public money spent on the trial of Fallon, et al. How can this be justified for what is, in the grand scheme, a minority sport?The top weight when One Man won the Hennessey was off an OR of 159, compared to Denman’s own 161. For winning the race, One Man received a RPR of 152 in 1994, Denman has been given 175. There were plenty of potential progressive sorts in yesterday’s race, but one way or another it just didn’t go for them. Say what you will about Denman’s ability compared with other top chasers, but I’m pretty certain time will show he’s one of the classiest sorts to run in the race for a good few years.
In terms of RPR’s One Man went on to post a figure of 178, Teeton Mill 174 in the same season as their Hennessey win. Do you think that, either, Denman would have been capable of giving the weight to those horses, or that any of the lowly-weighted runners in Saturday’s race will go on on this season to replicate One Man or Teeton Mill? My answer to both questions is no. Perhaps Denman will prove his worth, time will tell, then again perhaps his quirkiness, which seems to have been forgotten, will resurface!