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Are the official formbook comments in running written by racereaders who are at the actual racecourse or is it all done remotely from TV screens these days?
Having infiltrated a few press boxes in the South and Midlands in recent weeks, I can confirm that the Racing Post comments in running at least are still mostly (maybe even always) at the actual racecourse.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I know Raceform used to do all the extra stuff (notebook-style comments, synopsis etc) from the office. They had to watch the races on a little PC screen and churn them out.
As for the comments in running, I think these are done at the track but only after several rewinds of the video in the press room. It’s the most difficult job in the press side of the sport if you ask me.I concur with what has already been written.
I would say, almost without exception, the comments are done on course.
And as both Jeremy and Mulls intimated you only have to go to any press room after a race to see the tape being continually rewound and reviewed.
It does, of course, depend on how many runners there were in a race and how incident packed the race was.
Howeverv even the TV replay isn’t always a help, especially when the field gets strung out.
I must admit in large field races I tend to keep more of an eye on what is pulling up in the rear because I know I can watch the main contenders on the replay. I actually find the head on pretty useful for picking up horses pulling up towards the latter stages of the race.
I know it provokes a great deal of debate but from a race reading from TV perspective the absolute best camera shot for me is the overhead from the blimp.
Spot-on guys as usual – yes we do the "close-up" comments from the course press-room
The video machines (or DVD at Ascot!) Paul mentioned get lots of use these days, though when I first started there were no replays and you had one look at each race, live, even if it was a 30 runner Newmarket handicap over the straight 10 furlongs! In those days quite a few horses got the comment "n.d" (never dangerous) or maybe no comment at all – my mentor, Raceform’s senior race-reader John Sharratt, always told me to write nothing if I wasn’t sure
Happy to answer any questions about form book comments on here, or by pm if you prefer
‘Tis indeed, Carvillshill, always a pleasure to be here and reading the forum, often while writing up the Raceform notebook, hence my interest in any discussion about the Racing Post close-up comments (which also appear in Raceform, the official form book)
I know this is a subject which always provokes great interest – I did several features about it in Raceform Update a few years ago and people were forever asking me the difference between "ridden out" and "driven out", and so on!
Got to go now, off to Wolverhampton early tomorrow, but if you’ve got any questions either post them here, or pm me, and I’ll answer them over the next few days, cheers
It’s the most difficult job in the press side of the sport if you ask me.
It’s harder still for point-to-point race-readers, I reckon. Unless you’re at one of the few meetings where a videoing company is in operation, the chances of you getting to view a replay of your race meeting before the Weekender / Loose-Leaf Update deadlines of Monday night are slim to say the least.
I think I remembered the meaning of the word “terror” when trying to record everything accurately in a 15-runner maiden at Bonvilston last May – not great viewing (hedges and pylons in the way), a field full of mostly poor animals spread out over at least half a mile on the second circuit, and driving rain to boot.
Had Jonathan Neesom and Catriona Edwards not also been there that day and amenable to a little impromptu comparing of notes on that race, chances are there would have been the unscheduled return of Lee’s “Raceform Blanks” of yore (which, as I was doing some work with the 1986-7 Chaseform Annual before I logged on, I can confirm very definitely existed)!
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
It’s the most difficult job in the press side of the sport if you ask me.
It’s not easy – certainly if there is no replay – but it’s like many other disciplines in that it’s not all that difficult once you have experience. Indeed, it has always struck me as being considerably less demanding to state the facts than to be aware of those facts AND to interpret them meaningfully.
I’ve been doing notes for Scottish racing on this forum and my blog for a year or two. I find it easier to make useful notes on course, because I am able to watch what I want to watch, not what the TV director wants me to watch.
I can now watch a 7 or 8 runner and give a reasonably accurate desription of how each horse performed. However getting into double figure fields and I struggle to cope with all the runners, generally concentrating on those I view as the ‘principals’.
My note taking tends to vary from keeping it in my head and scribbling furiously at the finish , to scribbling shorthand in running notes during a quiet period in the race. The latter method works better for 4 mile chases than 5 furlong sprints!
I don’t claim to be an expert, but I’ve improved and I’m spotting more than I used to, and getting better at holding the ‘bins’ steady!
Rob
Rob,
I always enjoy reading your notes. Your efforts are appreciated…
Grayson perhaps you should post some of your P2P stuff up. A scanned copy of rain soaked notes to accompany them would be a good addition!!
Nick
My note taking tends to vary from keeping it in my head and scribbling furiously at the finish , to scribbling shorthand in running notes during a quiet period in the race. The latter method works better for 4 mile chases than 5 furlong sprints!
I’ll echo that last sentiment – big-field 5f sprints at Redcar have never been my favourite from a notation point of view!
Both during my Sportsman days, where I’d be in front of a monitor, and at point-to-points nowadays, where I’m not, I have a page of a notepad divided up according to fences, bends, straights, winning posts and soforth. These are then populated by either racecard numbers or initials, as and when something of note happens or to verify the race order at that point.
I’ve not got one in front of me just now, as I’m at work elsewhere, but for, say, a hypothetical, made-up 3m five-runner maiden point at Cottenham I’d wind up with something like this;
[i:yhubyr4k] 2.00 COT
========
1 fractious prelims 5 xnb 2 pricker n/s3 | 11-8 -> 13-8
5 | 2-1 -> 15-8
4 | 9-2
1 | 6 -> 8
2 | 251 2 (1l+), 4 / 5 (2l), 1 (tkh, 2l), 3 3 ww
2 4 njwWP 2, 4, 5, 1, 3
3 4 mstk & rdr waving
bend 2 (3l)
4 (od) 2 (js in ld, still 2l), 5 (1l), 4 (rec) / 1 (still pulling)(3l) 3
bend [6-7l]
5 4 j v big in 2nd
6
7 4 nf & rmndrs
bend 2 (3l), 5, 4, 1 (4l) 3 (still ww)
8 1 pecked
9
bend 2 (3l)
10
11 2 (js and imm u.p, 1.5l), 5 / 4 / 1 (3l), 3WP 2 / 4 (impr, 2l), 5 (2l), 1 (moment outpcd & rmdrs, 2l), 3
12 4 (goes on, 2l), 2 (blndr and u.p, 1/2l), 5, 1, 3
bend
13 (od) 4; 1 still outpcd when rfo
bend 4 (3l), 5 (no move yet, 2l), 3 (closer, 3l+), 2 (empty rapid)
14 4
15 4 (1.5l, shkn), 5 / 3 (progr, 30l+), 2 (rdr continuing furiously)
16
bend 4 (u.p.) / 5 / 3 (wl clr)17 5 (try to extend 2l), 3 (rdr motionless) / 4 (rddn)
18 5 (nf, 2l), 3 (3l+), 4 (onepcd)
bend 5 (u.p, 2l)
19 5 (rddn, 1/2l), 3 (asked to qckn, 15l), 4
2 (dist bhd & exhaust when ref & UR (rider should have pu))
20 3 (1/2l and toying w), 5 (clr)run-in 3 (8l+ and nd), 5
WP 3 (eased to walk, 8l), 5 (25l), 4 (plodded on)official dists; 9l, 25l
time; 6:40.0dire contest in slow time
2 still shocking animal – pasted by idiot until departure[/i:yhubyr4k]This may appear fairly (needlessly?) quantitive to some, but bear in mind that two sets of comments in running have to be fashioned from the above – a short version for the Weekender, and a far more in-depth one for Loose Leaf Update (and eventually the Mackenzie and Harris annual).
Other ways of doing it are available, of course, and the major drawback I have is trying to keep hold of pen, pad, binoculars and racecard at the same time whilst doing the above…. and that’s even before any rain is factored in. Some point-to-point race-readers are smart and experienced enough to memorise names, colours and saddle numbers and chug the whole lot straight into a Dictaphone, though how they manage in 20-runner maidens is beyond me!
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Very impressive and I’m now wondering what I’ve let myself in for this season! The lure of the office over the field is getting stronger again.
The pedant in me really does want to point out that there is only one fence before the [b:xen68bhh]WP[/b:xen68bhh] at Cottenham and then two before the bend – but I’m not that naughty, so I won’t mention it.
Very impressive and I’m now wondering what I’ve let myself in for this season! The lure of the office over the field is getting stronger again.
Give over! You KNOW you want to mow through that 11-race, 140-runner card at Whitwick Manor later in the season… Seriously, hope the above hasn’t scared you too much – it’s just one way of several to approach the task.
The pedant in me really does want to point out that there is only one fence before the [b:14owcb6b]WP[/b:14owcb6b] at Cottenham and then two before the bend – but I’m not that naughty, so I won’t mention it.
You’re totally correct, hence the “hypothetical example” disclaimer!
(NB I’d have done a mock-up of a Dingley race instead, but I’ve forgotten which fence is the ditch. The stampede towards senility continues apace).
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Spot-on guys as usual – yes we do the “close-up” comments from the course press-room
Is that the case for every meeting? I’ve noticed that, for example, not all meetings carry a description of the weather and wondered if that indicated that comments were being produced ‘remotely’.
‘Tis indeed, Carvillshill, always a pleasure to be here and reading the forum, often while writing up the Raceform notebook, hence my interest in any discussion about the Racing Post close-up comments (which also appear in Raceform, the official form book)
I know this is a subject which always provokes great interest – I did several features about it in Raceform Update a few years ago and people were forever asking me the difference between "ridden out" and "driven out", and so on!
Got to go now, off to Wolverhampton early tomorrow, but if you’ve got any questions either post them here, or pm me, and I’ll answer them over the next few days, cheers
Lee,
The quality of race comments is one art form that UK racing excels in – so a big thank you for your’s and colleague’s input over the years.
I enjoyed the helpful articles you provided for Raceform Update in the past.
They provided a lot of essential factual information on race details otherwise missed elsewhere. Any chance of Bernie giving you a new column?The BHA have indicated from earlier threads on correct race distances and rail moves etc that the information clerks provide on course should really be reported by the racing press. Would that be something you might cram into Update somewhere?
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