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Well, hold on, first of all the fact that most of the no hopers did in fact finish near last might indicate the form of the race is not suspect in some aspects?
If it;s not then lets look at the facts…Kauto beat Exotic 12.25 lengths in the King George, today it was 9 lengths, not a big difference (which would indicate the form could be sound). Exotic ran a similar race apart from maybe being up with the field a little more in the King George, and all things considered maybe he has ran to form. If he hasn’t then how did he get 3 lengths closer to Kauto today?
Do you honestly believe Kauto’s King George performance round Kempton would have beaten Denman today and that Kauto hasn’t ran to with 10 pound of that form, and that both Exotic and Kauto have gone wrong? If the answer is yes then i’ll answer back by saying that just because a horse comes second it does not mean it hasn’t run to form, and it doesn’t mean a horse has not run 7 pound better than Kauto on the bridle.
If that is hard to understand, then in short either I am a nut job who is overrating Denman or all the people that are paid to rate horses have overrated Kauto. At the end of the day, I don’t even think Denman was ever off the bridle, and even if you look at the third Neptune i’m sure he will back the general figures up.
As I say, ratings aren’t to be used to crudely but mine tell me unless Denman falls he will never be beaten , and the minimum he has run is 183, once you get in them sort of numbers it’s phantom of the opera stuff regarding what the horse has actually ran. the horse has wings, that all I can say.
183? your are quite substantially overrating Denman, Denamn was deing at the end, and of course he wasn’t off the bridle, i promise you in a race where KS jumps as fluently as Denman did today, Denman will be off the bridle, Denman was dieing at the end, though Denman isn’t the sort of horse where being of f the bridle would make to much difference, he is a grinder more than anything, good win today though, but please lol, it is not a 183, please
I think Neptunes Collonges improved for the biggest test of stamina he has ever faced. However, Neptunes, as good as Kauto? Don’t be daft he did not improve that much.
Kauto jumped as if feeling his back, not his usual fluent self.
The best horse did not win. The best horse on the day won. The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter. It may well be Denman will improve further, but for now, Kauto Star should still be rated the better horse.Ginge
so Very true, Neptunes does look a nice prospect though, as ruby said ‘ the best horse on the day won’
Well, some will obviously be interested to know how fast it actually was, and no doubt the speed raters will take a view, but I am conscious of the fact that Grasshopper was adamant before the Champion that he didn’t give a toss what the ratings said about Sizing Europe, and that they had got it wrong (and he was right). So basically I don’t think ratings will get everything right, but to my naked eye Denman improved at least 10 pound on what he’s ever done and the proximity of Exotic Dancer and Kauto would suggest Denman could have run near 190+ today. That don’t make him a 190 horse all i’m saying is it’s possible.
we’ll see, any idea how long it takes for them to get the ratings up on the rp website?
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.
As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.
I disaggree, i don’t think it would hav been impressive at all, it was just a slow race, dissappointing than none of the hype materialised, but even the best horse have off days. Any idea when the re match would be?
As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.
I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.
This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.
Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.
Yes, but has he travelled as fast and jumped fluently before with a horse like Denman out in-front of him? ? ?
The first lap was run at a slow pace, but Denman upped the pace in the second lap, and this got Kauto Star out of his comfort zone. His jumping wasn’t the most fluent on the first circuit, but with the added pace and pressure Denman was applying in the second circuit, it added to Kauto Star’s mistakes at his fences.
There was one constant in the hole of KS race, the mistakes at the fences, they didn’t change or get worse, it was just always there. Ruby will never run on Denman as long as KS is around, you could see how disappointed he was that he just wasn’t jumping, and someone said he took the sting out of KS finishing, not AT ALL KS was machining along, then walloped the final fence lol and took him of his rythem for probably the 20th time in that race. Bring on round two i say ^^
Might seem a glib after the event – but regarding Kauto Star
… Arkle can rest easy… yet again !
I have been convinced for months that Denman would grind everything into the ground and would take the sting out of Kauto Star’s finishing speed. No use arguing that Kauto Star didn’t show his true form, not when his trainer, owner and Michael Dickinson (among others) were all adamant that the horse was better than he had ever been. Denman was simply better. I likened Denman to Mill House. Hold that thought – I now believe he is superior to Mill House. Barring interventions, Denman can win next year’s old Cup too.
Let’s face it – who among the chasers out there can stop him?
We’ll see what happens when Nacanor goes to fences after he wins the national that is on mar 23rd.
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.
I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.
This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.
Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.
i think he did that to over half the fences tbh? thats the worst jumping i have ever seen him do
what do you guys think the ratings will be? it wasn’t that big a win, there is absolutely no way i could see Denman winning that race if Kauto Star had jumped even 3 quarter of the fences well, and it can not be down to the pace of the race, kauto was fine in the tingle creek which was faster. He almost jumped through every fence, don’t know about anyone else, but it was even in the commentators vocies, Denman is slightly flattered by this result
