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like others, not impressed by the way Recital hung over the rails, but given he was unrideable the last 2 furlongs, did well to win.
A decent gallop today, and that puts him second to only Native Khan on timefigures imo.
If O’Brien can sort out the waywardness with a suitable bit/bridle, he will be a major player at Epsom, and probably one of only 4 of 5 who can win on the day. So 9/2 is probably not far off being about right barring a clear winner in the Dante on Friday.
Also got to respect the fact that Ballydoyle clearly think this is their no. 1 horse and have done so for some time.
Blue Bunting top on time figs with me for the Oaks ahead of Together (-3lbs), Banimpire (-8lbs) and Zaid Al Boldan (-14lbs)
Looking at this week’s Musidora, got David Wachman’s unbeaten
Chrysanthemum
top rated for that and currently 25/1 for the Oaks.
Cormack might not appreciate that selection being by Danehill Dancer (!), but if she wins there, will surely be quoted single figs for the big one.
Out of a Sadlers Wells mare who stayed 11f in France, has possibilities on breeding from a yard in cracking form, and presumably they would have gone for a 7f/1m prep race if had intentions of going for the Irish Guineas. Guess the Wachman/Coolmore team must be looking ahead to Epsom and she looks easily the best of the trio of Coolmore entries on Wednesday.
….. any horse that makes its own pace has the luxury of the race being run at the speed that inconveniences it the least throughout the race – and when clear all the way, as Frankel was, does not have to alter that ideal pace to fight off challenges from other horses at any stage of the race. He was running on steam in the closing stages, but was so far clear that he never had to be asked a question……
Your athletics analaogy is also wrong. David Bedford used to lead all the way, knocking 7.6 secs off the world 10,000 metres record in one race, as well as a breaking a number of others……1. Mark Johnston would agree with you about the luxury of making your own pace – but would be 100% against any of his jockeys going a faster pace than the horse can sustain for the
whole
race
2. you suggest Frankel did not alter his pace. Yet he was decelerating markedly in the final 3 furlongs and by your own description, "running on steam" ??
3. I assume by "running on steam", you are implying that he had nothing left? And that he never had to be asked a question?
Yet Tom Queally had to get very serious with Frankel in the final 3 furlongs and had to administer a number of backhanders to keep going?4. do you have any idea of the lap times recorded by Bedford when he broke the 10000m world record? Were they even or uneven?
if Frankel had indeed run even fractions, can anyone name a horse that would have still been fast enough to give him a lead for even 2f?
Personally doubt it and he would still not have seen another horse. Off even fractions, Frankel would have been 5-6 lengths clear at halfway instead of 10-12…… and pretty sure he would have been 10-12 lengths clear at the finish clocking a time figure off the scale for a 3yo.
The Racing Post sectionals showed Frankel ran 2 seconds (10-12 lengths) slower (admittedly up hill) in the final furlong compared to some of the furlong splits in the first half of the race.
Even the 6th and 7th furlongs were run between 5 to 8 lengths slower then the first half furlong splits
Relatively speaking, he was decelerating markedly in the final 3 furlongs and legless up the hill.
Disagree strongly with those that suggest the horse is headstrong and just did what he wanted with Queally as a passenger.
Think Queally will admit he got the fractions wrong, but will learn a lot from this and will see an even more devastating display next time off a more even pace.
Also think those who believe Frankel may be a soft touch and will buckle under pressure are also very misguided. Things went badly for him in the Dewhurst, yet he buckled down and ground it out.
……How Canford Cliffs ever got a rating higher than the great mare Goldikova is beyond me. …….
where are you getting that info, Admiral? Looks like Timeform rate Goldikova 133 (same as So You Think and Workforce) and Canford 131 at present.
Would be very interested to read about any time or speed figures produced in Australia for So You Think and how he compares to other top middle horses there in the last 10 or 20 years.
Can any of the Aussie buffs on here point me in the right direction, please?
chiswickian / shattered, thanks for the formlines.
Looks like some potentially titanic clashes this summer So You Think v Workforce v Frankel v Goldikova v Canford Cliffs.
And possibly Planteur and Behkabad may sneak onto the radar as well, though personally think Workforce will have their measure again
shattered, sounds like you have some knowledge of Australian racing?
Can you or any other Australian experts pick out which of So You Think’s opposition in those Cox Plate victories would be competitive in similar 10f Group 1 events over here such as the Eclipse, Irish Champion, Juddmonte International or Champion Stakes at Newmarket?
interesting view on Americain, Chiswickian. Personally I rated his Melbourne Cup win 4lbs below his Deauville Grp 2 sh hd win over Manighar in August and 6lbs below his 3rd to Mastery in a Sha Tin Group 1 in December.
So maybe I am badly underrating his Melbourne Cup win which you think was vastly superior to anything else he has achieved?
robert, in Dave Edwards defence, I’m sure he would agree that the going was indeed on the fast side. His use of the terms Good to Soft and Soft for his going corrections are merely descriptions of the the positive allowances that he computed due to the headwind.
Drone, disagree with your view that Frankel is a headstrong sort who is not amenable to restraint. And others comments on here that suggest Tom Queally is just a passenger on a horse doing what he wants do a great disservice to a high class jockey.
Think Queally stated that he never thinks he is going that fast on Frankel due to his long stride, and pretty sure that is what happened on Saturday. When he looked behind at halfway and saw he was 10 lengths clear, he must have had a heart attack and realised he had overdone it.
This was the first time that Frankel has been let loose from the front. His jockey will have learnt a lot from this and can virtually guarantee that Queally will ride more even fractions in the future. I would even dare to suggest that Frankel will clock even better time figures this season and that we haven’t seen anything yet.
think you will find the time diff was 1.3 secs vincey with the sprint hcap.
Interesting comment about the difference on homework, about the same as I rate the pair on time figures at present.good points racinglover, and Chiswickian your knowledge of racing down under far outweighs mine.
Personally have no doubts that Australian sprinters are different class to European counterparts. In fact struggling to think of a world class sprinter based in UK, Ireland or France last 10-12 years.
Obviously 2m of the Melbourne Cup and soft ground would not be So Yot Think’s ideal cup of tea, but to give you some terms of reference with European middle distance racing, the winner Americain rates around 12-13 lengths inferior to Workforce over 12f.
I have no idea how much higher you would rate So You Think over more optimal conditions, but at least through Americain you have a guide.
correct Presto,
, one of the best 3yo 12f horses to be kept in training at 4.Pretty sure that trainer and owner would not consider keeping him in training unless they thought he would improve physically, so have absolutely no doubt Workforce will be just as good conceding WFA.
He broke the track record at Epsom. Irrespective of what the rest did that day, there have been plenty of fast ground Derbys won by good horses, and that marks out Workforce as one of the best in the last 20 years at least.
The Arc was no reflection on his superiority. They didn’t go a fast enough gallop to sort out the also rans , but Workforce showed his class to quicken up way better than proven Group 1 rivals who didn’t have the speed to get out of trouble (including Planteur and Sarafina)
Unfortunately So You Think has come to Europe when the first serious middle distance horse for some time (Workforce) has been kept in training as a 4yo and probably one of the top 5 milers of all time in the UK (Frankel) is about.
I’m no expert on Australian or New Zealand racing, but would have thought that So You Think would have to have been beating their horses by 8-10 lengths to consider him good enough to beat Workforce and/or Frankel.
Looking at his limited form on Racing Post, can’t see any victories by those types of margins.
As nice a horse as he looks, have to be a big doubter at this stage and would comfortably side with Workforce and Frankel….. at any distance
interesting spot with Everydave Dave, BluesBrother, how would you rate him compared to Magic City and other 2yos in UK at present?
Also, what do you make of the 2yo filly Wes Ward won with at Chantilly, Judy The Beauty?
, one of the best 3yo 12f horses to be kept in training at 4.