- This topic has 70 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Mike Smith was always going to look dejected after a defeat; who wouldn’t? His disappointment by no means indicates guilt.
The crowd beat Zenyatta today. She was flanked by what looked like a small army on her way to the saddling enclosure and was visibly affected by the rapturous applause she received upon her entrance.
As they turned in to the straight she was close enough if good enough and Smith’s diabolical use of the whip aside, he did absolutely nothing wrong. He worked her in to the race after a slow start, wasn’t all that far behind the eventual winner half-way down the back straight, had the entire field come back to her owing to a fierce early pace and lost out by a short-head.
She was second-best on the day and no amount of despair-driven scapegoating is going to change that.
Christ you have only gone and written another piece as bad as the one on my well named "Worst ride ever" thread! Zenyatta never batted an eyelid at the crowd,she never had a hair out of place and certainly showed no signs of nervous tension,ie sweating during the preliminaries, she"s seen it all before. What you seem to miss by a country mile is the fact that there was 2 races taking place,one had the winner and the rest of the field and the other was Mike smith showboating Zenyattas brilliance.Anyone who knows a minimal amount about horse racing could see Mike Smith ****** up massively she should have won pulling a train! Your opinion is so far off the mark it has to be the biggest nonsense i have ever read about what is a cut and dried case! Poor show AJ!
I think she got beat fair and square upon a bit more reflection. The kickback may have detached her from the field but she was still in a manageable position at the entrance of the straight and had the pace and a long homestraight to suit. I really don’t think the slow getaway hurt her too much, I’ve seen too many horses run like that well to think otherwise (Mine That Bird and the jockey Shane Dye is well known to get plenty out of his horses down under and in Hong Kong).
This is also how I see it.
I don’t agree that Smith fkd up, Fist and
TAPK
.
She runs like that EVERY time…the pace was savage, why would he want to be closer to it? And even if he did want to be closer, Zen couldn’t hack it early – for reasons stated many times in this thread.
Let’s suppose she could get closer to the pack at the beginning of the race. Would that not have taken more out of her? Taken her to a place physically and mentally that she didn’t want to go? How would that affect her astounding finishing speed?
Blame won fair and square, he coped better on the day. It would be a real shame if he is going to be remembered as "the lucky winner of the great Zenyatta’s final run."
Zen’s sheer brilliance was displayed in coruscating fashion on Sat night – on the night, it just wasn’t enough.
So how good is Blame?
Zip
I don’t agree that Smith fkd up, Fist and
TAPK
.
It doesn"t matter whether you agree or not now Zip as Mike Smith has put his hands up and admitted responsibility 100% his fault! It does prove though that opinion, even though the evidence is watertight,is still divided amongst posters on here! Human nature i suppose!
Wow. It’s still dissapointing a day later. The comparison with Nijinsky/Piggot is apt, I think at a certain point anybody is liable to succomb to pressure which is partly waht happend to Mike Smith. Had he not been so crazy with the whip I feel the horse would have got up. He cost a couple of lengths at least with the side to side swerving up the stretch.
For the first time I understand why Vincent O’Brien ran Nijinsky in the Champion Stakes – it would be great for Zenyatta to take a crack at the Dubai World Cup for a swan song. It isn’t likely and is a long ways off anyway. On the whole fairere to retire the horse and let us all argue about her "greatness"
For what it’s worth I would say that she is an exceptionally well ballanced and proportioned horse with a great turn of foot. Yesterday proved how tough she is because the first half mile was clearly very unpleasent for her – she didn’t travel at all – in contrast to her other 19 runs. I would say that she ran below form but was still able to produce an extremely impressive stretch run.
Placing her among the "greats" is impossible – the tracks she has run on bear little comparison to what we have here so to say Sea the Stars would have beaten her is irrelevant. I think Sea the Stars would beat her at Epsom or Longchamp, and she would beat him at Santa Anita or indeed Churchill Downs.
I don’t agree that Smith fkd up, Fist and
TAPK
.
It doesn"t matter whether you agree or not now Zip as Mike Smith has put his hands up and admitted responsibility 100% his fault! It does prove though that opinion, even though the evidence is watertight,is still divided amongst posters on here! Human nature i suppose!
Have you ever considered that emotion may have got the better of him with his statements re his ride? Perhaps in a few weeks or months he will come out and say the best horse won on the day. When you believe a horse is unbeatable, it must be tough to accept it has been beaten. Excuses and reasons will be manifold in such circumstances. The decency of the guy could be demonstrated by his desire to be the scapegoat for the horse and allow her to enter the pantheon of greats with her reputation as glowing as possible.
Watertight, my arse.
Zip
Mike Smith was emotional without a doubt. I don’t think this means we should discount what he said. In truth he made a few errors but it wasn’t Zenyatta’s day. That she got so close says a lot. On the first 4f – she didn’t travel and that means she was taking more out of herself for going slow than if she had have been running freely
Blame is a good horse. He has won a few nice races this year and the loss to Haydensfield last time can be excused. I don’t think he was the best horse in the race though. It feels like last years Betfair where although Kauto won Imperial Commander was felt by many to have proven superiority that day.
To be beaten a head in her third Breeders Cup is hardly a disgrace.This was the classic not just another BC.This included another generation of racing machines. She is a year older,seven I believe in January.I cannot get my head around how good she must be.
Be honest; what horse can give the field ten lengths? Maybe fifteen? In the BC?Why do we expect miracles from her?But we do.Go home Zenyatta we still love you for setting the racing world on fire.We will still dream about you.Go home Zenyatta to the peace and quiet you deserved for winning the classic last year,and the fillies and mares the year before.Thank you Mike for making her the center of your career,no flying dismounts or crowd waving or attention seeking for seventeen wins just pointing to the horse.What wonderful owners for sharing her with us. Nobody else would have done so.Thank you so much.How good is Zenyatta? ONE of the best fillies/mares we’ve ever seen, yes. But ran in only two races against the male sex. Her career was largely made of taking on vastly inferior rivals. Latterly to keep her unbeaten record. In two Breeders Cup Classics she ran the same type of races as against females, dropped out the back for a turn of foot. In 09 none of her rivals were good enough to beat her. In 2010 one was, Blame.
Goldicova took on the "stronger" sex time after time and beat them time after time. Just because she got beat now and again does not mean she’s less of a racemare. Goldicova deserves to be considered the better racehorse, as in my opinion she has the better form. Although it’s possible had Zenyatta been campaigned more often against colts it might be different.
Back to the Classsic blame game.
The Front group went off far too fast for their own good, a suicidal gallop. All had no chance of staying the trip as they were ridden. It is these jockeys that really should get the _ollocking from owners, trainers and punters. Therefore, they ought to be ignored when judging where Smith should’ve been after the first quarter. It may be dropping Zenyatta out so far off the main pack was the catalyst for defeat. But she wasn’t that far off the winner Blame, also held up. There are many races both in USA and Europe where the second is a long way further from the winner (after the first quarter) than in the BC Classic. And why was she there?
As already stated, it’s her way of racing to be out the back. Anyone who saw ATR’s split screen of 09 and 10 renewals realises Zenyatta’s position judged by "time" (not the horses around her) was very similar in both races. Possibly a length, two at most further back, that’s all.
Why was this? Squeezed as she left the gate, did not seem to be moving well, possibly the kick back she’s not used to (dirt not synthetic). Also the screaming fans and flash photography beforehand couldn’t have helped.Of course Mike Smith is going to blame himself. When it is 19 out of 19, going on 20 it’s natural. Particularly when you are closing and beaten a neck. Doesn’t mean we should blame him. Blame it on "Blame".
Value Is EverythingInitially, I found it hard to believe that Zenyatta was that devoid of early pace, and I believed that the ‘blame’ lies squarely at the feet of Mike Smith for her defeat. However, after watching 100’s of replays, I think that she got there soon enough, had every chance to win, but just wouldnt go past. Its unreal the way she tends to drop herself out so much in her races, and I believe that she was just found out by a better horse on the day. Her record was outstanding though, and Id love to see her continue next season, but I have the feeling shes developing her own ideas about the game, and it would be extremely difficult to keep her mind on the job for another season.
Which brings me to the best Mare in the world, bar none. Goldikova… Just a pleasure to watch, she has form at a far greater level than Zenyatta ever achieved, and is just phenomenal. (also reminds me of just how good zarkava was) Her performance in winning the mile for a 3rd straight year was just unreal. Her turn of foot was scary, and any horse that can quicken so well, and leave the likes of Paco Boy looking ordinary, is something special. Poor old Paco Boy, he must be sick of the sight of Goldikovas rear-end!!!!
Two abiding memories i’ll take from this years BC, is Goldikovas demolition job, and Calvin Borrells attempted demolition job after the Marathon!!! This might sound silly, but its actually given this sport a massive publicity boost, which we all know it needs!!! As one commentator in the States said, regarding the fighting incident… "its not done hockey any harm’!!!! Class.
Implying Zeny lost the race cause she drank too much Guinness? http://www.dailyracingnews.com/horseracingnews.aspx?id=49130
- Total Posts 17716
Nulty,
The OTT stuff from Chapman (who else) was about judging the ride by distance Zenyatta was behind the leader. Where as he should have judged it by the early distance between winner and Zenyatta.
The leaders went off far too quickly, and mis-judged the pace to a far greater degree than Mike Smith.
But not for the first time, Chappers exaggerates and lets emotion win.
Leader’s jockey’s didn’t misjudge the pace Ginge….they my friend were chancing their arm realsiing the only hope they had was that their mounts could get away with it and puk off a shock.
Mike Smith got it wrong plain and simple…..if I am wrong answer these questions…..1. would he ride the horse exactly the same way again? 2. why do you think she clearly the best horse in the race was beaten?
IMO You can’t give the best the same start as you do meoderate animals he did and he paid the price.
a few thoughts-
1) Smith didn’t choose to drop her out and have her travle so slow early. She did that herself for reasons which we may never fully understand.
2) There is no objective reason whatsoever to believe that had Smith used up valuable gas getting her closer earlier the result would have been more favourable for her. Or indeed that such efforts would even have worked at that stage given the mare’s demeanour at that point.
3) All the available collateral form evidence points to her finishing position in this years race being essentially equal to her previous career best performances. Therefore, unless you believe sheshould
have performed better than at any point in her life in this years race, there is no reason to expect that different jockey tactics might have produced a different outcome. She has probably run as well as she has ever shown she is capable of.
4) The jockey’s comments do not demonstrate anything other than his willingness to carry the buck/his unwillingness to acknowledge Blame’s excellence. Making him either a good sport or a bad sport depending on your point of view.
5) Smith’s ‘error’ ensured he had sufficient fuel to pass every horse in the race bar the brilliant winner.
6) Nobody – no matter how much they might want to – can demonstrate conclusively that had she been any closer in the first half of the race she would have passed Blame before the line as Blame’s reserves are an unknown quantity in that equation.
Black and white is always fun from the point of argument but grey is nearly always nearer the truth. Could he have done more? Maybe.Should
he have done more? Extremely doubtful given she probably ran the race of her life with, as usual, not much regard to what the pilot was doing.
Of course I can no more demonstrate that he was not at fault than his critics can demonstrate that he was.
- Total Posts 17716
Simply superb, Sean.
- Total Posts 17716
Seconded – a cold bucketful of judicious common-sense from Mr Boyce, to douse the over-heated irrationality which has been fuelling this thread.
Simply superb, Sean.
How can Seans opinion be simply superb when he is basically sitting on the fence? The outcome of the race was by the jockeys own admission lost by over doing the waiting tactics! Had Zenyatta got up on the line this would still have been a shocking ride because the horse is head and shoulders above the rest of the field and should have won comfortably! anyone who watches horses race regularly gets a gut feeling during the race and the last time i got that sickly feeling was when Istabraq was pulled up in the Champion hurdle,this race had all the hallmarks of just that to me.When a jockey puts their hands up and says i ****** up,take it as gospel they did!
Have you ever considered that emotion may have got the better of him with his statements re his ride? Perhaps in a few weeks or months he will come out and say the best horse won on the day. When you believe a horse is unbeatable, it must be tough to accept it has been beaten. Excuses and reasons will be manifold in such circumstances. The decency of the guy could be demonstrated by his desire to be the scapegoat for the horse and allow her to enter the pantheon of greats with her reputation as glowing as possible.
Watertight, my [expletive].
Zip
The sooner you realise Mike Smith used this years Classic as a public stage to showboat the inimitable talents of Zenyatta the sooner you will accept why she lost! Very rare you see a jockey make a catastrophic error of judgement and then panic publicly during the race,it was as close to a nervous breakdown on horseback as i have seen! Shocking ride,simple as that! Zenyatta should be 20 wins from 20 starts,no ifs and buts Zip.
Nulty,
The OTT stuff from Chapman (who else) was about judging the ride by distance Zenyatta was behind the leader. Where as he should have judged it by the early distance between winner and Zenyatta.
The leaders went off far too quickly, and mis-judged the pace to a far greater degree than Mike Smith.
But not for the first time, Chappers exaggerates and lets emotion win.
Leader’s jockey’s didn’t misjudge the pace Ginge….they my friend were chancing their arm realsiing the only hope they had was that their mounts could get away with it and puk off a shock.
Mike Smith got it wrong plain and simple…..if I am wrong answer these questions…..1. would he ride the horse exactly the same way again? 2. why do you think she clearly the best horse in the race was beaten?
IMO You can’t give the best the same start as you do meoderate animals he did and he paid the price.
Fist, your first question can only be answered by another question – 1) Did Smith have any choice as to how to ride her? She tends to do her own thing every time and he brings her with a late surge. On this occasion he could not get her to travel early and play closer. That’s not the Jockey’s fault – the horse couldn’t cope in the early meters. (unlike Blame).
She was beaten because she did not enjoy the dirt surface and the kickback. They went hell for leather up front and she could not live it – fact. Then she came with her usual run and was beaten by a horse that adapted better to the circumstances and held on tenaciously when challenged for at least 50 metres. So, it was good to see the best horse win it.
Zip
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.