- This topic has 42 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by
.
- Posts
Are we all getting measured up for our uniforms?
The world has changed – anyone who imagines the young British adult generation of today will accept a call-up the way that happened in the past is IMO deluded.
Desire to fight and die for Britain is at an all-time low, I’d say.
Those refusing, citing “Conscientious Objector” would hit record levels, I think.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Agree ID. I think it is a story fed to the media by the armed forces top brass to try to pressure the government for more funding.
I believe any attempt to introduce conscription would be met with mass resistance and possibly full blown revolution. The governing parties know it.
I completely agree.
Even in WWII, all you had to do was say “I object to warfare being used as a way of settling international disputes” to get the “Conchie” exemption and I just read 60,000 did exactly that.
Today I reckon it would be the vast majority of the adult population – it just isn’t happening.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The reality of war is much more visible these days too. Back then it was very easy to glamourise it and make the idea of volunteering enticing. Now it’s all over the media 24/7 and we know much more about what it’s really like.
I recently saw a superb documentary called 20 days in Mariupol which was filmed by a crew based in the city at the very start of the war in Ukraine. It was an incredibly hard watch but I thoroughly recommend it, you will at the very least get a massive lump in your throat at times. I believe it’s available online for free.
I believe we are living in an era that is more dangerous than it has been since the Cuban missile crisis. Ukraine / Russia, Gaza / Israel / Yemen / Iran, North Korea / South Korea, Taiwan / China… etc etc
Yes, these days we all know what war brings.
But if a country does not have an effective deterrent / military or allies to help… then it has to do whatever an aggressor (that does have the weapons) says.So I don’t understand your point, Richard. Is your arguement that Ukraine (any country) should give up and do whatever the aggressor wants – without fighting back?
Value Is EverythingI think you should be up to the task of defending yourself. The only problem nowadays is that we are getting used to violence, crime and wars without doing much against it. The war in Syria or Ukraine doesn’t really seem to bother us much. We are in a phase in which we simply ignore the potential dangers and somehow hope that everything will be fine.
Why did they (entire Western World) let Putin get that far? And who can be so naive to think that he’ll stop pursuing his goals after the Ukraine war? The least you can do is to be able to defend yourself. There is nothing wrong with being able to use a weapon, if it’s only for the above mentioned purpose.
Thinking that peace will be permanent after the end of the Cold War remains a fantasy. There has always been a period of silence between bigger wars, but this phase might last for a few decades, the a new conflict will show up. An you’ll always have new parties joining in. Who knows what India, some Arab States, NK or China are up to?
If it was down to me there’d be no agressors in the first place. Wars have been going on for millennia and they still are. Clearly they don’t work and never will.
Let’s face it, this is partly sabre rattling to get more funds for the military. Weren’t his comments originally made at some defence industry conference? Of course they want war or they won’t make any money.
I accept that we need one but it should be populated with people who want to be there so you could argue he has a point as one way to get more recruits is to pay them better.
Not that it’s going to happen but if the army comes knocking on my door they’ll be issued with a simple two word instruction.
And I’d say literally tens of millions would say the same as you, Richard.
The days of politicians or any form of establishment elite successfully ordering people to War in Britain are over.
The majority would probably (I’d love to see a poll on this actually) live under Putin or whoever than go to War.
And you can’t put all the “conchies” in prison.
Britain won’t be involved in another World War (not with land troops, anyway) but we might take part in a World Walk Over.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Does it seem far-fetched that alien intervention might prevent a nuclear war?
I think it’s highly feasible that a superior power is monitoring us very closely 👽“I think it’s highly feasible that a superior power is monitoring us very closely”
I have been taking the occasional look at the BBC home news page.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I think it would be different if people felt the country was at risk of being invaded. But is that realistically going to happen? Germany did not attempt to invade in 1940 because it knew it would be suicidal.
Where does this idea come from that Putin wants to invade the rest of Europe? Or at least the Baltic States and Poland? He has got what he wanted out of the Ukraine war: control over the Russian speaking areas. Why would he risk losing that?
I am not saying he is a nice guy. But he does not strike me as a bloody fool either. He seems to have more of a grasp of realpolitik than the kiddults who govern us in Western Europe.
I will take the likes of Grant Shapps seriously when he gets measured up for a uniform and a tin hat himself. And if conscription was ever introduced, it will be an odds on certainty that all these politicians will find exemptions for their own children. They prefer other people’s children to do the fighting and dying.
I know I am straying very close, or perhaps walking head first into, another tedious anti-boomer rant but it’s very easy for someone of the General’s age who voluntarily joined the forces after National Service finished and who can sit behind his nice comfy desk to order young civilian men and women to go out and get their legs blown off or worse. And for what? Good luck with that, not happening now or ever.
‘I will take the likes of Grant Shapps seriously when he gets measured up for a uniform and a tin hat himself. And if conscription was ever introduced, it will be an odds on certainty that all these politicians will find exemptions for their own children. They prefer other people’s children to do the fighting and dying.’
Edit: this, this and this again.
“If it was down to me there’d be no agressors in the first place. Wars have been going on for millennia and they still are. Clearly they don’t work and never will”.
—————-
If it was down to me too and if it was down to Grant Chapps and co him / they too.
If it was down to every correct thinking person in the World they’d be saying “me too” to that.
…But History has taught us there will always be wrong thinking people being aggressors… And there are more aggressors right now than there have been for many many years. We need the capability of defending ourselves as a deterrent. ie So that our potential enemies believe (and that word is important, “believe”) we can and will fight back IF wronged. So as to put them off military action against both us and our allies. In other words, a capable military is needed in order to prevent war against us and our allies. Putin and other aggressors only attack countries they can see are weak.Conscription? No. But we do need a stronger military.
Value Is EverythingCAS,
Appeasement only leads to further atrocities.If wanting to understand more of what caused World War II and its atrocities, then a good programme to watch is imo USA And the Holocaust. It certainly helped me understand it more.
Value Is EverythingI didn’t mention appeasement, Ginger. Instead I asked where is the evidence Putin wants to expand the conflict from Ukraine and attack a NATO country? I have not seen anything in the slightest bit convincing. I doubt Russia could afford it anyway.
But we do have to face up to the fact Ukraine has lost. How many more Ukrainian men need to be killed in a futile cause? Even if it was able to turn the situation around, the amount of deaths and utter destruction would take decades to recover from. And the emotional and psychological damage may never heal.
Ukraine would be far better off sueing for peace while it might still get favourable terms. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.
I’d imagine most young adults would weigh up the chances of being killed, or suffering life-changing injuries, as a result of accepting conscription and going into combat against what their quality of life would be like IF Putin successfully invaded the UK.
And I think most would take their chances with life under Putin (if it even came to that) and play the “conchie” card (there will be no end of free legal advice on social media in the event of conscription returning).
That’s how most people tend to think IMO.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.