Your emotions as the festival finishes?

Home Forums Archive Topics Cheltenham 2017 Your emotions as the festival finishes?

This topic contains 30 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by Triptych Triptych 2 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #1293326
    Ghost of Rob V
    Ghost of Rob V
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    • Total Posts 715

    All hit-and-miss for me. I think the absence of the elite group like Thistlecrack, Annie Power, Faugheen, Coneygree, etc tarnished the gloss of the meeting. I’ve not doubt that Thistlecrack would’ve decimated all before him in the Gold Cup had he not been injured.

    I feel that Altior missed a Golden chance in the Champion Chase. The conditions/going would’ve played to his strengths on the Wednesday rather than the softer going on the Tuesday. A different day, a different horse would’ve turned up.

    Defi Du Seuil looks a highly promising youngster and adds an extra shiny facet to the next Champion Hurdle.

    Despite his quirks, Might Bite remains of huge interest should he take the Gold Cup route.

    The fact that Special Tiara and Un De Sceaux conquered in their respective races underlines what a divine chaser Sprinter Sacre was.

    Oh and Willie Mullins is a devil!

    #1293331

    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1124

    It’s only a sport and if you are knocking back a bottle of scotch whilst toying with a loaded gun, because the festival has finished you need to have a bloody good look at yourself

    Four days is enough anyway although I’m at kempton today. I see suppose there is the advantage for me that I go racing a lot.

    No emotions aside from fact it was very poor for betting, but I don’t bet the sort of sums to worry myself over.

    Racing wise it was ok. Defi in the triumph was a stand out performance for me. Really think this is a star in the making and I would love Hobbs to have a big star once again

    #1293339
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8281

    I was bitterly disappointed by Brain Power in the Champion Hurdle. He seemed to be lobbing along effortlessly and then simply caved in tamely. I am not sure what to make of the race really. Yanworth was awful and even though I had said after his previous race that I wouldn’t take 10/1 on him for this, he was simply pitiful in his effort.

    With Uknowhatimeanharry getting stuffed behind Nichols Canyon, you have to ask if Yanworth was simply in the wrong race. Buveur D’air a good winner but problem horses My Tent Or Yours and The New One’s prominence begged the question of how good a race this was. I found myself asking whether Defi De Seuil could have gone very close.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1293341
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8281

    All hit-and-miss for me. I think the absence of the elite group like Thistlecrack, Annie Power, Faugheen, Coneygree, etc tarnished the gloss of the meeting. I’ve not doubt that Thistlecrack would’ve decimated all before him in the Gold Cup had he not been injured.

    I feel that Altior missed a Golden chance in the Champion Chase. The conditions/going would’ve played to his strengths on the Wednesday rather than the softer going on the Tuesday. A different day, a different horse would’ve turned up.

    Defi Du Seuil looks a highly promising youngster and adds an extra shiny facet to the next Champion Hurdle.

    Despite his quirks, Might Bite remains of huge interest should he take the Gold Cup route.

    The fact that Special Tiara and Un De Sceaux conquered in their respective races underlines what a divine chaser Sprinter Sacre was.

    Oh and Willie Mullins is a devil!

    That can only be speculation Rob. Despite all the gushing about Cue Card, the King George runner up had a modest season that suggested he’s a good bit below his peak. He barely held off the “gone at the game” Silviniaco Conti in that King George and the other two in the race Josses Hill and Tea For Two are miles from Gold Cup standard. Tea For Two was only in the Gold Cup to give Lizzie Kelly a ride in the race.

    Overall I think it was a poor renewal of the King George. I would lay Thistlecrack at 3/1 with the race so far away.

    I find it hard to believe that Sizing John can be rated below Thistlecrack after that Gold Cup. The horse has landed the Irish Gold Cup as well. Thistlecrack is 9yo and Sizing John is only 7yo. Thistlecrack has not proven he stays the Gold Cup trip yet but Sizing John is unbeaten at 3m or more. Since Sizing John joined Jessica Harrington, the only horse to beat him was Douvan and that was over 2m 1f, Sizing John is getting on for 2 stones higher rated than he was when facing the mighty Douvan and his form as a chaser is simply in a different league to Thistlecrack’s.

    I would say it’s Fantasy Island and verging on unsporting to suggest Thistlecrack would have “decimated” the field. Minella Rocco is a former Cheltenham winner, Native River is a Hennessy and Welsh National double winner, Djakadam is a two time Gold Cup runner up, both horses he ran behind were declared excellent winners of the race.

    As Mick Fitzgerald would say “The farm looks Rack Salad” ;-)

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1293404
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5648

    Emotions-wise I found it taxing from an ante-post viewpoint (most of my Festival bets would be antepost). We all have our own hit the crossbar stories and I’ve seen some really painful ones this week for others. One guy posted an EW Lucky 15 on Twitter (50p stakes):

    Willoughby Court
    Supasundae
    Special Tiara
    Whisper

    Might Bite’s desperate charge to win by a whisker cost the guy £34,000.

    I know there were many others who came so, so close to winning a lot of money – not least VTC on here waiting for Native River at huge odds.

    But the ones that matter to you are those that affect you. To call me a grizzled veteran in the ups and downs of antepost is understating it and I don’t mind at all being wrong. My worst bet was my biggest and on reflection it was poorly thought out. I backed Tizz at 4/6 to win the Gold Cup when he still had 5 in the race, reckoning I could live with it if the three main ones got there. Backing each horse at best price represented a 1/3 chance and I can count on one hand the number of odds on chances I back in a year. But I convinced myself that this was superb value. Had it been within 48 hours of the race it would have been. 6 weeks before it, it was simply a bad bet, poorly reasoned and I’m happy to take the consequences.

    Of the rest, I, like many, backed Willoughby Court for the wrong race. I backed Neon Wolf at 33s for the Neptune and 50s for the Supreme (which I think he’d have won), Fox Norton at 50s for the QM (Altior at 55 for QM though on his lacklustre Arkle show I’m not sure now that he’d have won had he run) I had quite a decent bet on Charbel for the Arkle at 33s and smaller bets on him at big exchange prices. I backed West Approach at 50 for the AB, and although I doubt he’d have won that, it would have been the sensible option. I backed The New One at 50s plus for the World Hurdle in the hope that even his crackpot trainer would see sense and finally run him in the right race.

    The Champion Hurdle’s becoming my bogey race having backed Brain Power at 50 (Steve, I think he simply ran much too keen in the early stages; perhaps Nicky should have run him beforehand, although the way he went out of it, I very much doubt he’d have been involved). I backed Moon Racer at 50/1 and that might just have been poor judgement again. I don’t think he’s as bad as he looked on Tuesday, but he might well be. I’d never have bet the winner at what looked skinny odds.

    All in all, I’m glad I cut back deeply last year on festival antepost (Vautour left a lifelong wound). And given Mullins’s continued multiple entry/leave it late strategy and now Gigginstown taking horses out of big races on the Alice in Wonderland premise that an extra 2lbs might result in them dying in the race, their entries now need treated with similar caution. Between those Irish ‘giants’, you know how many races they won, so having any festival antepost bet no longer makes sense, for me, at least. Case in point: Empire of Dirt: I’m not a fan but some good judges here are and wanted him to run in Ryanair/Gold Cup accordingly. Key factor is that the trainer – hailed by many as the second coming – was absolutely convinced the horse held a much better chance in the Gold Cup. O’Leary ignored him and went for his own race. His prerogative, of course, but another stark warning about how the choices of temperamental individuals can affect races you’re betting in.

    Another factor is the utter dominance of the Irish. Some blame the handicapper, but I suspect that whatever steps are taken, Irish trainers will work out how to keep winning at the Festival. Witness Power’s confident shout right after the Gold Cup: “Are you going home, now?’
    ‘Not yet. We’ve the Grand Annual to win with Rock The World.”
    That was not tongue in cheek…that, as they say, was the plan. And this coming not from a Mullins or Elliott, but from a trainer who has trained more than 50 winners in one season just twice in her 30-year career. That, to me, speaks volumes.

    If something jumps out at me from a smallish yard and I’m 90% certain of the Festival target, I might have a bet if the price is right, but I think I’m probably done with it now.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1293450
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8281

    Punting wise for me it wasn’t very good. I lost several to the wrong race and several who were ruled out as not being ready for Cheltenham. Late injuries stuck the knife in another few. I had a couple of tight second places and another couple of second places. Divin Bere getting beaten by a 33/1 shot and then Debuchet getting mown down late by Fayonagh were two tough ones to swallow, as was Singlefarmpayment, who I felt travelled like a winner all the way, only to be caught by Un Temps Pour Tout and beaten a short head, the 8/1 would have helped pay for several others.

    By Friday I needed either Charli Parcs at 20/1 or Native River at 33/1 to save my meeting, or both to get some gravy but it wasn’t to be. Defi Du Seuil only covered a few of the losers as a 4/1 saver. Might Bite 10/1 and 6/1 was my biggest winner of the meeting and that was borderline heart stopping.

    I don’t back Mullins very often and I seem to be the kiss of death on Elliot’s ones, so that’s always going to make life tough.

    One personal note I will take from this meeting was someone on another forum who was giving it large about Moon Racer at 33/1 each-way for the Champion Hurdle. I posted that I thought the horse was up against it because of the poor collateral form at the time (Maybe still questionable), the injury set back, the negative trends of not running since last year, being a novice and the fact that a Bumper winner had never won the Champion Hurdle. These were valid and honest points but the other guy got shitty about it and even one of the moderators on the site saw fit to personal message me about what a great chance Moon Racer had and that I was giving site members a bum steer by playing down the horse’s chance.

    I am always honest in my assessment and, as I said at the time, nobody is ever proved right or wrong until the race is run, so there is no need to shout the odds until it is done and dusted one way or the other. Sadly for the good festival Bumper winner he could not overcome the problems and the owner probably made the wrong choice for the horse in a vainglorious rush of excrement to the head.

    People having a go at me like that before I have had a chance to be proved wrong, or correct, gets on my nerves. The worst thing is often not getting the nod in the aftermath that your judgement was correct. When I am wrong here, or anywhere, I hold my hands up and don’t do excuses very often unless there is a blatant one. I am not on that site anymore but if either the guy who derided my views on that other forum, or the moderator from that other forum, who backed him up in a crappy little dig via a personal message to me, are reading here now, can I just borrow this forum for a second to give the good Caithness riposte:-

    “Up your shitter with a tattie fritter boys” B-)

    Balance restored.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1293453
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 20469

    lol Steve, good to have you back

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #1293518
    botchy1
    botchy1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2951

    I think i could write a book on this festival, but these are the main memories.

    Supreme Remember watching a couple of preview evenings and G.Elliot saying that Labaik destroys all the other horses at home. Looking at Labaik all week at 100-1 then backing another Elliots horse on the day only to see Labaik storm away to win – <strong
    >Great Start
    Charbel crashing out – would he of won? Had a chance but certainly placed – Getting worse
    MTOY – Kept the faith again, and came back to form as he always does. Best horse never to win a Champion possibly ? Get in 50-1 E/W First winner of the year
    Tiger Roll – Tanking around like in the Munster national, coming to the last fence and all i could think of was Golden Chieftan. He’s over Get in 25’s !

    Might Bite – Golden Chieftan again. He’s over Get in ! Hang on a minute what’s going on here :cry: . Get in 14’s :yahoo:
    Champion Chase – If only Ar Mad ran :cry:
    Cause of Causes – No surprise that one.Get in 16’s Next stop Aintree

    Yorkhill – He’s bound to fall Get in 11-2 and under
    Pertemps – Presenting Percy sluicing through the field to win with his head in chest.Sat at the PC before the race staring at the 19.5 on BF and then going to the couch thinking he wont win with that weight, the jockey has just said as much on TV. Get in 33’s
    Lil Rockerfeller – What more can be said, a sick horse 2 weeks ago and comes out to run like that – Next year Rocky :heart:

    L’ami Serge – Sat waiting for IG to come though then seeing LS surging to the line. Second ! What won, Arctic Fire, hang on i backed that Ante Post to win the Champion @ 33’s and never had a penny on :cry: Get in 33’s E/W
    Monalee & Death Duty – Death Duty drops out and Monalee & Penhill fight out a great finish. Second ! Penhill another for Mullins.

    Gold Cup Kept the faith with SDR and finally shows he is a good horse after losing all year with him. Great finish and good winner, but was shouting on Native river for VTC’s big priced double

    Most craziest experience was having a Tenner on Elliot to be Top Trainer @ 6’s

    Laid him off for a free bet @ 1.25 then a bit more @ 1.06 just to make sure i would win a bit if the unexpected happened. Mullins came back with 6 winners to lead after Penhill won. So i laid Mullins @ 1.3 just in case Elliot got a winner and Mullins never.

    Then the ITV presenter said that one bookie had already paid the day earlier. “hmmm sounds like something Paddy Power would do that ” So i checked my account and got paid out after the second day :yahoo: Nobody could make that up !

    What a week!

    Well done to all TRF’ers on your winners and better luck next time the ones who did not do so well :rose:

    #1293578
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8281

    lol Steve, good to have you back

    Thank you Nathan. I have stuck a couple of Hannon colts up on the Derby thread, not that I think they will definitely go there but just felt they were worth keeping an eye on.

    Hope you have been well and getting some winners pal.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1293598
    Zarkava
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4708

    For me this was the best festival yet. My stakes were kept largely level, bar doubling/trebling for my failed nap and nb ADO/Charli Parcs. But I approached the handicaps with a very good platform and did very well. Midway through the Festival I uncovered just a gem of a filter which gave me unbelievable final shortlists for most of the handicaps. I am determined to learn all the mistakes I have made during this NH season/Cheltenham (believe me, there have been many!) and I will come out of this Festival a far better punter.

    Several misses…failed to back Labaik after googling to make sure VC still offered guaranteed run for your money…what a moron. Singlefarmpayment not getting up cost me a large amount of money. Supasundae…ffs I backed the thing to win the Stayers’ Hurdle but I didn’t have a bean on him running off 145 or whatever in the Coral Cup, coming from that super hot Supreme. That was just so stupid. Might Bite was a very good lesson for a very high number of reasons. Electing to take a piss during the Bumper, rather than place an in-running bet on Fayonagh. I heard she missed the break and I saw they were going a mental gallop, but went to take a slash instead :) that was clever. See how many mistakes an intelligent person like me makes!?!?! That’s down to complacency and a lack of preparation. And I haven’t even gotten onto Thursday yet!

    Joking aside, this was a brilliant Festival. Turned a profit and learnt really a lot of very valuable lessons. I would highly recommend going back and looking at your punting and figuring out what was stupid, what was just unlucky and what was good.

    1 – keep. stakes. level.
    2 – no mug lucky 15s, yankees, etc cos the stakes are so unbalanced. You’re losing so much money every time you do one of those. Your stake for the 4-fold is identical to your double stake…that’s just nonsense.
    3 – need to be more liquid
    4 – need to prepare more, especially handicaps. Those are very easily hacked but have to prepare first.
    5 – focus on weighty EW singles
    6 – focus not on who I think will win, but who the best value is. I think this is a mistake that 99% of punters make. An aftertime example…I gave very little in the Neptune a chance. I didn’t fancy many at all, but Willoughby Court I knew was decent at the very least but wasn’t sure if he could win. So what? Neon Wolf pays 7/4 if he wins. Willoughby Court pays 7/2 for a place. Even after factoring in the potential lost win stake, it pays the same and you have much more chance to win.
    7 – stats are folly. Used sparingly and sensibly, they are good. But honestly you can find a stat for just about anything out there. 2008-2016, from 49 horses who started their career on the flat, 1 placed. Labaik 1st Melon 2nd, both started on the flat. Just 1 of the last 34 horses with 1 career start over hurdles placed.
    8 – when NRNB comes out, hit. them. hard.
    9 – use my special wizard Cheltenham Festival filter for the really juicy stuff, especially the juicy stuff at huge prices in the handicaps ;)
    10 – if betting in the handicaps, unless betting way in advance to get a monster price (like Ivanovich G 20s), I think it is better to wait until the day to place your bet as firms fall over each other to give better place terms. Had I placed some of my Friday bets on Friday morning instead of Thursday night, my payout would have been significantly larger (Croco Bay 33/1 5th OUCH! that would have been a monster…).
    11 – sharing ideas is GOOD
    12 – sectionals are GOD
    13 – information is power
    14 – believe in yourself. I said Ballyandy was so slow, he got outpaced by Messire Des Obeaux, but I place laid Melon instead (at 2.02, while Ballyandy was 1.71, despite both trading at 4.2 for the win) because of that stupid stat above. I placed the stupid gimmick stat above my opinion and it cost me. Ok, not much, about £40, but that’s a £70 swing.
    15 – there is so much value at Cheltenham it’s unreal. How much money would you make by place laying the favourites that those mug crowds send off at 3/1…I mean Le Prezien 7/2f ffs…that’s a bit generous, isn’t it? Singlefarmpayment 5/1f!?!?!? He was 15/2 in the morning, that’s a hell of a punt for a competitive handicap. I know he placed, but still, that was a mug price. 3/1f Tombstone!!! 3/1!!!! In a Cheltenham handicap!!!!!!!!
    16 – jockey experience is vital. Ruby and Davy had that Festival by the fecking bollocks.
    17 – don’t be put off by a race just because I haven’t traditionally bet in it. I didn’t even look at the Fred Winter properly until the night before. If I’d researched the history more, I would have made very nice profit from that race. It was only afterwards I looked. Silly. Cause of Causes as well. At 10/1 NRNB 3 weeks before, when we knew he was a confirmed runner, that was a monster price for a twice-Festival-winner. But didn’t bet because I don’t like the X-Country.
    18 – Enjoy every single race to the extreme and get every single drop of profit you can, because it’s an unbelievable four day festival and there is so much money to be made. I cannot wait to get my teeth into the ******* next year.
    19 – do not even think about betting on novices until January
    20 – The Ante-Post King is dead. Long live King Zarkava.

    #1293603

    Funkmaster Flex
    Participant
    • Total Posts 97

    A festival that won’t live long in the memory. Lots of stars missing and those that did turn up or turned up with star potential pretty much all disappointed (including Altior but Defi De Seuil aside).

    It felt like watching Arsenal. Entertaining and enjoyable for people who don’t understand the sport, but for a purist, a lack of top quality.

    #1293606
    botchy1
    botchy1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2951

    The best lesson i learned was about laying horses in running which will help a lot cutting down losses and sometimes making a profit instead of breaking even.

    Example Lil Rockerfeller i had to win 2K plus and left a lay in place @ 20.0 to cover my stake as a free bet. Instead of watching from the couch to enjoy the race i’m quite sure i could of won over £500 guaranteed easily if i was at the PC.

    When / if i get in a position like that again, 100% i will be watching the screen and listening to the race. :yes:

    #1293607

    rocky91
    Participant
    • Total Posts 444

    The best lesson i learned was about laying horses in running which will help a lot cutting down losses and sometimes making a profit instead of breaking even.

    Example Lil Rockerfeller i had to win 2K plus and left a lay in place @ 20.0 to cover my stake as a free bet. Instead of watching from the couch to enjoy the race i’m quite sure i could of won over £500 guaranteed easily if i was at the PC.

    When / if i get in a position like that again, 100% i will be watching the screen and listening to the race. :yes:

    Very good point, I picked that up from last year’s festival with shaneshill in the rsa but I still diddnt put it to use this week.
    However this time Willie mullins saved the day

    #1293631

    Funkmaster Flex
    Participant
    • Total Posts 97

    All hit-and-miss for me. I think the absence of the elite group like Thistlecrack, Annie Power, Faugheen, Coneygree, etc tarnished the gloss of the meeting. I’ve not doubt that Thistlecrack would’ve decimated all before him in the Gold Cup had he not been injured.

    I feel that Altior missed a Golden chance in the Champion Chase. The conditions/going would’ve played to his strengths on the Wednesday rather than the softer going on the Tuesday. A different day, a different horse would’ve turned up.

    Defi Du Seuil looks a highly promising youngster and adds an extra shiny facet to the next Champion Hurdle.

    Despite his quirks, Might Bite remains of huge interest should he take the Gold Cup route.

    The fact that Special Tiara and Un De Sceaux conquered in their respective races underlines what a divine chaser Sprinter Sacre was.

    Oh and Willie Mullins is a devil!

    That can only be speculation Rob. Despite all the gushing about Cue Card, the King George runner up had a modest season that suggested he’s a good bit below his peak. He barely held off the “gone at the game” Silviniaco Conti in that King George and the other two in the race Josses Hill and Tea For Two are miles from Gold Cup standard. Tea For Two was only in the Gold Cup to give Lizzie Kelly a ride in the race.

    Overall I think it was a poor renewal of the King George. I would lay Thistlecrack at 3/1 with the race so far away.

    I find it hard to believe that Sizing John can be rated below Thistlecrack after that Gold Cup. The horse has landed the Irish Gold Cup as well. Thistlecrack is 9yo and Sizing John is only 7yo. Thistlecrack has not proven he stays the Gold Cup trip yet but Sizing John is unbeaten at 3m or more. Since Sizing John joined Jessica Harrington, the only horse to beat him was Douvan and that was over 2m 1f, Sizing John is getting on for 2 stones higher rated than he was when facing the mighty Douvan and his form as a chaser is simply in a different league to Thistlecrack’s.

    I would say it’s Fantasy Island and verging on unsporting to suggest Thistlecrack would have “decimated” the field. Minella Rocco is a former Cheltenham winner, Native River is a Hennessy and Welsh National double winner, Djakadam is a two time Gold Cup runner up, both horses he ran behind were declared excellent winners of the race.

    As Mick Fitzgerald would say “The farm looks Rack Salad” ;-)

    I’m not sure the proximity of Minnella Rocco makes the farm look that rack salad, though I agree with the rest of it!

    #1293684

    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4102

    Punting wise for me it wasn’t very good. I lost several to the wrong race and several who were ruled out as not being ready for Cheltenham. Late injuries stuck the knife in another few. I had a couple of tight second places and another couple of second places. Divin Bere getting beaten by a 33/1 shot and then Debuchet getting mown down late by Fayonagh were two tough ones to swallow, as was Singlefarmpayment, who I felt travelled like a winner all the way, only to be caught by Un Temps Pour Tout and beaten a short head, the 8/1 would have helped pay for several others.

    By Friday I needed either Charli Parcs at 20/1 or Native River at 33/1 to save my meeting, or both to get some gravy but it wasn’t to be. Defi Du Seuil only covered a few of the losers as a 4/1 saver. Might Bite 10/1 and 6/1 was my biggest winner of the meeting and that was borderline heart stopping.

    I don’t back Mullins very often and I seem to be the kiss of death on Elliot’s ones, so that’s always going to make life tough.

    One personal note I will take from this meeting was someone on another forum who was giving it large about Moon Racer at 33/1 each-way for the Champion Hurdle. I posted that I thought the horse was up against it because of the poor collateral form at the time (Maybe still questionable), the injury set back, the negative trends of not running since last year, being a novice and the fact that a Bumper winner had never won the Champion Hurdle. These were valid and honest points but the other guy got shitty about it and even one of the moderators on the site saw fit to personal message me about what a great chance Moon Racer had and that I was giving site members a bum steer by playing down the horse’s chance.

    I am always honest in my assessment and, as I said at the time, nobody is ever proved right or wrong until the race is run, so there is no need to shout the odds until it is done and dusted one way or the other. Sadly for the good festival Bumper winner he could not overcome the problems and the owner probably made the wrong choice for the horse in a vainglorious rush of excrement to the head.

    People having a go at me like that before I have had a chance to be proved wrong, or correct, gets on my nerves. The worst thing is often not getting the nod in the aftermath that your judgement was correct. When I am wrong here, or anywhere, I hold my hands up and don’t do excuses very often unless there is a blatant one. I am not on that site anymore but if either the guy who derided my views on that other forum, or the moderator from that other forum, who backed him up in a crappy little dig via a personal message to me, are reading here now, can I just borrow this forum for a second to give the good Caithness riposte:-

    “Up your shitter with a tattie fritter boys” B-)

    Balance restored.

    I don’t think it’s ever your views but the way you express them Stevie. You are a brilliant race-reader and have bags of knowledge and insight. But there is no doubt that people get rubbed up by you sometimes. You do like to point out your own brilliance from time to time! :) Anyway – none of us are perfect are we?! Hear’s hoping for a great flat season. Best of luck! :good:

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

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