The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Wouldn’t want to be an owner with Kevin Ryan!!

Home Forums Horse Racing Wouldn’t want to be an owner with Kevin Ryan!!

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #902
    alan1
    Member
    • Total Posts 167

    The guys unquestionably a good trainer but he always puts a lot of decent horses in Sellers and claimers this time of year, presumably to make way for the new 2 year olds. But at the end of the day he doesn’t own these horses so in my opinion he’s giving his owners bad advice if he’s advising them to run.

    Take My Mirasol which ran in the seller today, although the horse is only rated in the 60’s its well bred, is a previous winner and a  half sister to a decent horse, and therefore an excellent Broodmare prospect which I would expect it to fetch £15k-£20K at Auction. So why run it in a seller where it could be claimed for £6K if it doesn’t win?

    As it turns out it won and it was bought back for £11.5K, so its actually cost the owners to run there horse rather than getting any prize money.

    Crazy!!<br>

    #40071
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    Funny horse is this. It looked a short runner early on last year and after an absence, I didn’t think it would win a race. Credit to her trainer for getting her to show her form at as far as 8.6f as she is very speedily bred.

    She was fully proven under todays conditions and had plenty in hand at the weights so looked unlikely to be beaten in todays race. According to a friend of mine that has a horse with Kevin, he is a believer in giving horses a chance in sellers to get their confidence back, his strike rate in such events over the last few years certainly suggests he run plenty of the classier (relatively speaking) types in them.

    Personally I think she’s well enough treated to win in handicap company on the all-weather and like you say with the possibility of fetching 15k+ at the sales, connections haven’t done too much harm.    

    #40073
    DannyDanny
    Member
    • Total Posts 790

    The owner cant be that stupid he must no he’s spending money there must be an ulterior motive to running the horse in a seller :biggrin:

    #40074
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    Ulterior motives to running in sellers. Does anyone recall the situation back In February 2004 when Scotty’s Future was declared a non-runner in selling company with the official explanation of "Doesn’t want to run – owner’s decison".  Scotty’s Future’s main market rival was withdrawn for a different reason and it was speculated that Scotty’s Future’s price, likely to have been in the region of 5/1-on meant he wasn’t a viable betting proposition to make it worth their while running him to earn enough profit from the bet to buy him back.

    #40075
    PompetePompete
    Member
    • Total Posts 2391

    This may simply be an example of my ignorance – but can someone explain how you buy back something you already own – I understand the transaction may involve costs and commissions therefore costing the owner but these may be covered by prize money. Or am I missing the point. Thanks.

    #40077
    Lincoln Duncan
    Member
    • Total Posts 157

    If your horse wins a seller, you don’t actually ‘own’ it any more because it is to be ‘sold’ after the race.

    If there is ‘no bid’, the horse reverts to the owner.

    If someone else wants it, then there will be a bidding exchange, and if the owner wants to take the horse home again he will have to outbid everyone else – and that will cost him money. Some seller winners have been known to cost around £20,000 to ‘buy back’.

    #40078
    PompetePompete
    Member
    • Total Posts 2391

    Thanks LD – but wouldn’t you be paying the £20,000 (less costs) to yourself. I’m still confused :(  

    #40079
    jonny1ph
    Member
    • Total Posts 44

    I had a small share in a horse with Milton Bradley. The syndicate manager and Milton were very good at laying out the risks and benefits of sellers/claimers. <br>I can’t believe Kevin Ryan would put his owners in a position where they could lose the horse for potentially much less than its value without the owners agreeing first. <br>

    #40080
    alan1
    Member
    • Total Posts 167

    From the way I understand it, but I could be wrong!

    The bidding starts at £3k after a seller. If its your horse then everything bid over that you get half back. So yesterdays horse which was bought in for 11.5K actually cost the owner:

    11.5 – 3 = 8.5 divided by 2 which is £4,250. Considering the owners prize money was less than £2,000 I don’t consider that good business at all.

    #40082
    PompetePompete
    Member
    • Total Posts 2391

    Thanks Alan – seems a strange old business to me and I think you summed it up perfectly – Crazy!

    #40083
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3087

    <br>The division of the money is exactly as described by Alan, but the cost is actually greater than he indicates, because the bidding at the auction is in guineas, not pounds.

    11,500 guineas is £12,075, so the owners will have to pay £4,537.50 through their Weatherbys bank account.

    Quite why we still have selling races in the program is a mystery and they should all be replaced by restricted claimers, so that the connections can set their own price for each horse.

    AP

    #40084
    bluechariot
    Member
    • Total Posts 569

    Alan or AP <br>How much do the owners give up on the claiming price in a claimer?

    #40085
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3087

    <br>In a claimer, the racecourse collects 5% from both sides of the transaction.

    So if a horse is in to be claimed for £10,000 (no guineas in claimers), the new owner pays £10,500, the previous owner receives £9,500 and the track gets £1,000.

    AP

    #40086
    bluechariot
    Member
    • Total Posts 569

    Thanks Alan

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.