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LOL, sorry have been out all day paintballing
bit random but there we are!The Tidal Dodge beat a handicapper, who won his handicap off 145, and here was GIVING TB 4lbs and got beat 5 lengths.
He has 20lbs to find. But don’t let that simple thing cloud your judgement!!
Big Buck’s is still the one they all have to beat in the World Hurdle, but he has never met a horse with Tidal Bay’s pace since reverting back to the smaller obstacles.
He has undoubted quality over this trip, but Tidal Bay has proven he does, too, yet possesses a turn of foot superior to that of the favourite.
Big Buck’s last competed in a contest shorter than three miles when an outpaced seventh in the Jewson at the 2008 Festival – the same year Tidal Bay routed his rivals in the Arkle over the minimum trip.
Connections decided the two mile novice chase would be too sharp for him after a 2L defeat at the hands of Krugyrova – the same horse Tidal Bay smashed 13L.
Howard Johnson’s horse has plenty to find on ratings over hurdles, but he was switched to fences after a successful novice hurdle campaign, which culminated with a narrow defeat in the Ballymore before a facile success at Aintree.
Tidal Bay has shown quite remarkable versatility in his career. He was a decent bumper horse, a top class novice hurdler and a top class novice chaser who progressed into a high class, if infuriating, two / three mile chaser. Whether it was destroying an Arkle field over two miles, or trying to give eighteen pounds in a slog round Wetherby over three, he has demonstrated a high level of class and versatility.
The World Hurdle will be his fourth different race in four years at The Festival.
Big Buck’s is a out-and-out stayer who has, thus far, beaten stayers. He has yet to encounter a horse with the pace of Tidal Bay over hurdles and it promises to be an interesting tactical affair – Tidal Bay does more than just bring a touch of class to the opposition.
Will Ruby track Tidal Bay, or will Denis follow Big Buck’s through?
The Cleeve Hurdle was a solid race, run at a solid pace. Time For Rupert could progress into a high class animal and there were some good horses who were well beaten.
Tidal Bay will be even better on decent ground and, like someone has already said, the World Hurdle just got interesting.
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Your correct about Big Buck’s not having met anything with Tidal Bay’s pace but Tidal Bay has met horses with the staying power and in race pace of Big Buck’s and failed miserarbly.
As I said in another thread if they jumped the last together both full of running my money would be on Tidal Bay but that is a big if.
As fast as the pace of that race looked the chances are The World Hurdle will be much faster and any sudden injections of pace may well be too much for Tidal Bay to cope with.
As Brian Hughes said after the Cleeve he raced all the way and for me on reflection that’s where he fails against top class over fences. As soon as there is an injection of pace he’s already in top gear and can’t quicken instantly to cope and by the time he gets going again the race is over…….I think we’ll see a repeat of this in the World Hurdle and Big Buck’s crown is pretty safe.
- Total Posts 17716
Your correct about Big Buck’s not having met anything with Tidal Bay’s pace but Tidal Bay has met horses with the staying power and in race pace of Big Buck’s and failed miserarbly.
As I said in another thread if they jumped the last together both full of running my money would be on Tidal Bay but that is a big if.
As fast as the pace of that race looked the chances are The World Hurdle will be much faster and any sudden injections of pace may well be too much for Tidal Bay to cope with.
As Brian Hughes said after the Cleeve he raced all the way and for me on reflection that’s where he fails against top class over fences. As soon as there is an injection of pace he’s already in top gear and can’t quicken instantly to cope and by the time he gets going again the race is over…….I think we’ll see a repeat of this in the World Hurdle and Big Buck’s crown is pretty safe.
I note with some amusement the concept that Tidal Bay has demonstrated "top class" and/or "high class" form. He’s beaten nothing in any of his races to suggest this. His Arkle was dreadful, truly abysmal, and whilst he himself was "impressive" on the day his subsequent performances merely underlined that he is and always has been around 20lbs short of "top class" and around 10lbs short of "high class".
His win in the Cleeve confirmed the above.
Punchestowns would slap him for speed, but BB has the speed to go with any horse over a trip – it’s a 3 mile race remember – and the ability to quicken and outstay his rivals.
TIdal Bay can’t jump fences for whatever reason, mental or physical, but he can jump hurdles. He now needs to translate form that reads as good, into form that reads as outstanding. Maybe better ground will see him find the 20lbs.
Can’t see it myself but you never know, it’s racing.
I’ve always felt that the World Hurdle should have remained the ‘warm up’ race for the Gold Cup, and the fact that it has become a race for horses that have failed over the bigger obstacles reinforces my view. [Not taking anything away from Big Bucks and Tidal Bay, both admirable horses in their own right].
I’ve always felt that the World Hurdle should have remained the ‘warm up’ race for the Gold Cup, and the fact that it has become a race for horses that have failed over the bigger obstacles reinforces my view. [Not taking anything away from Big Bucks and Tidal Bay, both admirable horses in their own right].
Is the Gold Cup winner better than the World Hurdle winner? Several people (myself included) think Big Bucks is the best stayer of recent years and in my opinion on pure ability he is the best horse in training. It just so happens a couple of the runners THIS YEAR have previously raced over fences – Tidal Bay was good enough to bolt up in an Arkle.
Best horse in training? Do I detect a pair of rose coloured spectacles or has Denman been retired?
Just take a look at Big Bucks early record, it’s hardy the stuff of legends.
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Several people (myself included) think Big Bucks is the best stayer of recent years and in my opinion on pure ability he is the best horse in training.
Also the opinion of his trainer apparently, and as he’s got the next 3 in line (all much better than Tidal Bay – whichever way you look at it) we maybe should take note.
Let’s not forgot Big Bucks has also proven his stamina against some very good horses which, despite all the euphoria over yesterday’s performance, Tidal Bay has still to do. It’s certainly looked suspect the previous twice he tried.
I’d definitely take Karabak to finish in front of him in the big one.Several people (myself included) think Big Bucks is the best stayer of recent years and in my opinion on pure ability he is the best horse in training.
Also the opinion of his trainer apparently, and as he’s got the next 3 in line (all much better than Tidal Bay – whichever way you look at it) we maybe should take note.
Let’s not forgot Big Bucks has also proven his stamina against some very good horses which, despite all the euphoria over yesterday’s performance, Tidal Bay has still to do. It’s certainly looked suspect the previous twice he tried.
I’d definitely take Karabak to finish in front of him in the big one.I backed Tidal Bay on the basis that Karabak apart most of the second division turned up yesterday. True, there is a doubt whether Tidal Bay will reproduce that running, particularly in smaller field but I thought he was worth chancing at the price. I wouldn’t be massively surprised if Time For Rupert turned the tables and he is also worth considering in the market without Big Bucks. Karabak is still the obvious alternative to the favourite but I am getting increasingly wary of McCoy doing something he is expected to do. I still haven’t erased the memory of last year’s Ballymore.
Tidal Bay will definitely improve for better ground, I think thats a fact. All his best form is on better ground. As for him not being able to keep up in the race, i dont think that will be a problem. Big Bucks races like that too…in fact the great Inglis Drever was a master at it…only do what you have to.
I hope all 3 big guns (ie Big Bucks, Karabak, Tidal Bay) get to the race in one piece and further more hope all three are still travelling well as they start the run down the hill. That would make the heart beat faster (and that would be without a penny on).
I hope all 3 big guns (ie Big Bucks, Karabak, Tidal Bay) get to the race in one piece and further more hope all three are still travelling well as they start the run down the hill. That would make the heart beat faster (and that would be without a penny on).
I"ll just hide under the stairs then dough!
TIdal Bay can’t jump fences for whatever reason, mental or physical, but he can jump hurdles. He now needs to translate form that reads as good, into form that reads as outstanding. Maybe better ground will see him find the 20lbs.
You keep throwing the 20lb improvement in as if its rocket science and because Big Bucks is officially rated the better horse by 20lb then Tidal Bay needs to grow another leg!Just remember who was the higher rated Chaser and who beat Albertas run on 2 occassions by 22l and 23l and in between the two defeats by Tidal bay, Albertas Run wins the RSA,he then goes to Aintree and Big Bucks beats him by 11 lengths,getting 4lb from Albertas! You and the rest of the Big Bucks Brigade are in for a shock!There aint 20lbs between them,i can assure you!
I note with some amusement the concept that Tidal Bay has demonstrated "top class" and/or "high class" form. He’s beaten nothing in any of his races to suggest this. His Arkle was dreadful, truly abysmal, and whilst he himself was "impressive" on the day his subsequent performances merely underlined that he is and always has been around 20lbs short of "top class" and around 10lbs short of "high class".
I can’t accept it was a ‘bad’ Arkle, it was however an Arkle Mr Nicholls considered Big Buck’s not good enough for having been comprehensively beaten by the eventual second placed Kruguyrova on his previous start
. Kruguyrova hasn’t run since that season and third placed Noland looked to have a promising future racking up a grade 3 and a grade 1 before getting injured.Don’t get me wrong I’m Big Buck’s biggest fan but if an on song Tidal Bay turns up he’ll be in for a proper race.
Mourad to come 2nd to Big Bucks….wasn’t that far behind Zaynar in the Triumph. Seems to enjoy Cheltheham
Don’t get me wrong, despite the forum name I’m rather phlegmatic about the race however much I think the horse is absolutely top notch.
I think people are getting a little confused though. Big Bucks was 5 when running a stormer in a decent Hennessy. That’s 5. By the age of 7 he’s a 170+ rated hurdler and quite clearly a top notch chaser in the making.
Tidal Bay lost to Wichita Lineman over hurdles. He also lost to Massini’s Maguire and only beat the now-139 rated Wins Now by 8L.
He is NINE years old. He beat a good handicapper lto who may or may not improve a few pounds himself.Whichever way you shake it, age, ratings, running style, Tidal Bay is going to hurt in this race, whilst Big Bucks is looking round thinking when do I surge up the hill please?
It is racing, things happen, but Tidal Bay will do well to place I’d have thought.
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