- This topic has 40 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Just heard on Radio 4 that the star mare is not coming over to Europe this season. While it’s a disappointing development, I’m sure that connections have probably based their decision at least partially on the travails endured by Black Caviar in 2012.
Travelling this far would’ve been tough, however, they had plenty of time to do it if they actually wanted too.
Even if it wasn’t for RA.
Max Dynamite has done it and made Cheltenham…
Personally i am on the side of she needs to travel to prove how good she is. For me, she is beating up the same horses and its difficult to gauge the level.
She could well be a superstar, and i dont begrudge AUS for calling her that, but i don’t feel she has proven that currently.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!The European mile division doesn’t look very strong, so even if she did come over and win we’d say she beat nothing special
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
I’m off to troll convicts (sorry Aussies) on youtube.
All you will get in return Nausered is ” she beat Highland Reel ” and the European horses have to come to Australia to face her.
Don’t blame them at all mopping up all that prize money in OZ racing against the Godolphin and Coolmore cast offs who could not make the grade in Europe.
She can only beat what has been put in front of her, but unfortunately will always be remembered by non Australians as a very good horse who beat very little unfortunately.
Several of the forum members anticipated this and snapped up 12/1 on Andre Fabre’s Le Brivido for the Queen Anne. He’s a 7/1 shot now and will be shorter still if making a winning return at Saint-Cloud next week. Coolmore recently bought a half share in Le Brivido and the original owner retains the other half.
I haven’t been able to get excited about Winx as I don’t follow the Australian racing at all and therefore find it difficult to put her achievements into context. It’s not easy to keep going out there and winning though. Even great horses tend to have an off day somewhere and Frankel, with 14 wins, is a rare unbeaten one after that many races at the top level. Even he had a fright from Zoffany.
The King of Sha Tin, Able Friend came over for the Queen Anne in 2015 with some bullish comments about sending Solow back to France with his tail between his legs but the punters were not buying it and Solow was the 11/8 Fav on the day. Able Friend never showed and it was he who tucked his tail in and headed back to Hong Kong.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Absolutely the correct decision. If she came over she’d race in the Queen Anne and beat nothing, with the exception of Le Brivido who is still only a G3 winner coming back from an injury, we wouldn’t have been convinced. If she stayed to face Enable or Cracksman her bubble would have been burst. The Winx team would have been on a hiding to nothing.
She’s past her best now so why not stay and mop up another Cox Plate.
Why come over here when you can stay at home and win another race at odds of 1/10 Fav?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
No different to Frankel’s sp’s though Steve, his last 4 runs 2/11, 1/10, 1/20 and 1/10
He could have gone to France or a breeders cup but his supporters said the trainer does what is best for the horse, no different to Winx in that regard.Charles Darwin to conquer the World
I don’t know about every conversation but I guess
because they are two top class winning machines
a bit like when the new jumps kid on the block pops up and everyone mentions Arkle
you’re not going to get many involving Matsunosuke in themCharles Darwin to conquer the World
It’s very different Nathan and I am surprised that you can’t see that.
Frankel crossed swords with some really good horses. He was only in danger once in his career.
Winx has made heavy weather of it at long odds on.
The Melbourne Cup is Australia’s big race. It’s a 2 mile handicap. If you truly think Australian Racing can match British Classics and Group 1 races along with the legendary stars we have watched then the best of luck to you.
Frankel was short because he was brilliant. Winx has been short because she faced lesser quality.
Frankel was unbeaten, Winx isn’t.
It’s a bit of an insult to the late Henry Cecil to suggest he didn’t do what was best for the horse. He was an exuberant horse who took time to get to know how best to handle him. He won races of such stature that it would have been inconceivable to imagine a horse going off such short odds to win in any normal season.
I will go to my grave believing that Frankel would have blown Winx away easily.
I suspect you know that and are trying to make a straw man argument here.
Winx won a race with a RPR of 111 in September last year. Frankel only ran less than that ONCE in his career. Guess when? You’ve got it, on his first start at 2YO, when he beat Nathaniel.
Frankel beat the 111 RPR when he made his second start at 2YO and earned a mark of 115.
Frankel went 95, 115, 125 as a 2YO, Winx has a top RPR of 130 in her life.
Frankel beat Winx’s top RPR of 130 EIGHT times in a 14 race career, if we take his 2yo career out, which we should because 2yo’s don’t tend to do 130, then he has bested her figure 8 out of 11 career starts. His RPR best of 143 is 13 lbs in excess of Winx’s.
Can we please drop the pretence of Winx being within hailing distance of Frankel?
Thank you. That is all.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Good post Steve, I can’t argue with that other than
I’ve not made an argument to say that Winx would have been within hailing distance of Frankel, just saying he was very short odds in all his races which in our friend gingers book equates to percentage chance of winning said race, of course Frankel is miles better it doesn’t take a genius to work that one out, maybe I shouldn’t have said she was top class but in Australian terms she is I guess. If one had chosen to place a pound bet at sp and rolled it over every race since her winning run began they would have racked up a decent enough profit for beating up the same rubbish 8/5, 19/20, 12/5, 21/10, 18/5, 3/5, 9/10, 4/5, 4/5 all mixed in with the 1/10’s
also ‘Not my opinion’ but people out their have said Frankel didn’t prove himself by not racing in the Derby, Arc or Breeders Cup. The first two are daft because he was a 8-10f horse and of course Cecil did the right thing by the horse.Charles Darwin to conquer the World
I certainly wouldn’t be too hard on Winx’s connections.
I think a better comparison (than Frankel) might lie with Zarkava. This was a filly I greatly admired but she was campaigned in a way that minimised the opportunity to judge her place against other stars.
Over almost exactly 12 months, she ran 7 times in total (6 at Longchamp, 1 at Chantilly)…4 of those were over the exact same course and distance and only once in open company (the Arc).
Throughout her career she never travelled more than 18 miles from her own stable.I believe Zarkava was a huge talent but longevity and adaptability are certainly factors when comparing the greats. In comparison to the French filly, Winx’s campaign has been one of immense diversity and giddy risk.
On Frankel’s campaign I think the health of his trainer was a limiting factor to his options overseas. Henry clearly struggled to make it to York even for the International. Campaigning abroad with his trainer absent was something, I imagine, connections never countenanced.
Winx has even more excuses than Frankel for not travelling, givne the distance it entails. I loved Frankel, but his racing programme was unambitious; never competed outside England, never took on the Derby or the Arc; because he didn’t stay thats distance apparently, but thats the most competitive and prestigious division, with the biggest prize-money; all the other great ones proved themselves at a mile and a half; Seabird, Nijinsky, Mill reef, the Brigadier. Sea the Stars etc
Can’t have Frankel being criticised for not running in the Derby. He was just not a Derby horse.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.