The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

why slate the classic generation

Home Forums Horse Racing why slate the classic generation

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 36 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3047
    newyork
    Member
    • Total Posts 215

    this season especially too many people have been very quick to dismiss the classic generation as average not very good . WHY  every  crop of 3yrold’s have 2 or 3 very good horse’s and the rest are good thats the way it always is. This season there have been too many ready to slate the guineas derby any race that the 3yrs have been in.The 2000 guineas was the strongest renewal for many yrs all the top 2yrs from last season took there place , and from that race there have been   the derby winner irish guineas winner st james’s palace stakes  winner and more group winners behind those. Take sir percy ten yrs ago if a horse had acheived what he has unbeaten as a 2yr old winner of the dewhurst 2nd in the guineas and winner of the derby he would of been hailed  the best thing since slice bread. this crop of 3yrolds are as good as the last l0/15yrs and some people need to appreciate this<br>

    (Edited by newyork at 8:51 pm on Sep. 25, 2006)

    #77903
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from newyork on 8:31 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]this season especially too many people have been very quick to dismiss the classic generation as average not very good . WHY  every  crop of 3yrold’s have 2 or 3 very good horse’s and the rest are good thats the way it always is. This season there have been too many ready to slate the guineas derby any race that the 3yrs have been in.The 2000 guineas was the strongest renewal for many yrs all the top 2yrs from last season took there place , and from that race there have been   the derby winner irish guineas winner st james’s palace stakes  winner and more group winners behind those. Take sir percy ten yrs ago if a horse had acheived what he has  unbeaten as a 2yr old winner of the dewhurst 2nd in the guineas and winner of the derby he would of been hailed  the best thing since slice bread. this crop of 3yrolds are as good as the l0/15yrs and some people need to appreciate this

    Great post, agreed mostly except some times the three year olds are poor.

    This years three year olds are very good and perfectly capable of beating the older brigade.

    It’s a trend I think, for a while now generally the older horses have been better than the three year olds that have largely disappointed especially over the middle distances, so people now generally expect the older horses to be better. They generally get over hyped as being on a different level due to a few years of largely poor three year olds.

    This year however, the classic generation are definitely up to standard and the best of them are certainly on a par with the older horses in my opinion.

    (Edited by The Market Man at 8:42 pm on Sep. 25, 2006)

    #77904
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    The top 3yo middle distance horses have yet to face their older rivals in battle, no 3yo took part in the KG, races like the Arc, Champion will sort the wheat from the chaff in that department

    The Older Milers are an average bunch as we saw in the QEII, so how can you rate horses like GW, Araafa highly, had Dubawi, Shamardal, Starcraft  been still  around then we would have had good horses from which to measure them

    Can anyone name me a GOOD  older Miller?

    #77905
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from empty wallet on 8:55 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]The top 3yo middle distance horses have yet to face their older rivals in battle, no 3yo took part in the KG, races like the Arc, Champion will sort the wheat from the chaff in that department

    The Older Milers are an average bunch as we saw in the QEII, so how can you rate horses like GW, Araafa highly, had Dubawi, Shamardal, Starcraft  been still  around then we would have had good horses from which to measure them

    Can anyone name me a GOOD  older Miller?

    I completely disagree with your interpretation of milers. Also you seem to forge Dylan Thomas beating Ouija Board and Alexandra Goldrun over an inadequate trip in Ireland.

    The only evidence we have so far points to the three year olds being right up there with the older brigade.

    #77906
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    So you rate todays older milers as good as Dubawi,Shamardal, Starcraft, Rakti (going day) etc?

    As for the Irish Champion, i don’t think DT beating QB and AG over his wrong trip is a measure of his ability when there’s Shirocco,HR around

    #77907
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from empty wallet on 9:04 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]So you rate todays older milers as good as Dubawi,Shamardal, Starcraft, Rakti (going day) etc?

    As for the Irish Champion, i don’t think DT beating QB and AG over his wrong trip is a measure of his ability when there’s Shirocco,HR around

    <br>Shirocco, Hurricane Run? They’re good horses but they’re no Sea Birds there’s no reason the three year olds should fear them. Why do you ignore the Irish Champion?

    I think Court Masterpeice is better than ever. Dubawi, Shamardal were good horses but I’d put them both behind George Washington, possibly on a par with Araafa on Dubawi’s best form.

    Shamardal over a mile beat Ad Velorum three lengths on his best form, bearing in mind Court Masterpiece being stopped in his run at Ascot when finishing behind Ad Velorum this year there’s probably very little between the two yet George Washington beat Court Masterpiece over three lengths on Saturday barely breaking sweat.

    <br>

    (Edited by The Market Man at 9:16 pm on Sep. 25, 2006)

    #77908
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1208

    Quote: from empty wallet on 9:04 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]So you rate todays older milers as good as Dubawi,Shamardal, Starcraft, Rakti (going day) etc?

    As for the Irish Champion, i don’t think DT beating QB and AG over his wrong trip is a measure of his ability when there’s Shirocco,HR around

    <br>

    Eh …I cant see what SHirocco, HR existing somewhere else has anything at all to do with how we rate DT??  Surely we have to rate him according to the horses he is running against.  In fairness, if Alexander Goldrun ran her race at leopardstown, then he must be pretty smart.  Simple as that for me.  

    In my opinion HR is a smart and consistent horse but I still think he had a little luck on his side in last years arc.  I dont think hes unbeatable.

    I do find it interesting the way people use the word average though.  For one this years Guineas was average, but then whats wrong with that…an average guineas always throws up a few good horses and few Duds and an average Derby will also have some nice horses and some that never show any Group 1 or 2 potential later.  This years crop dont look poorer in my opinion although its a pity we havent seen more of some of the Derby horses.

    SHL

    #77909
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    QB or AG are not capable of 128+ performances, Shirocco and HR are, thats why

    <br>Court Masterpiece is not capable of a 128+ performance,  those  i mention were and achieved it

    <br>128+ is TOP class performce, not one 3yo has reached this yet imhaho

    #77910
    Ultimate Nightmare
    Member
    • Total Posts 326

    Quote: from empty wallet on 8:55 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]

    <br>Can anyone name me a GOOD  older Miller?

    <br>

    <br>Best i can come up with with is windy miller from camberwick green. :)

    #77911
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from empty wallet on 9:26 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]QB or AG are not capable of 128+ performances, Shirocco and HR are, thats why

    <br>Court Masterpiece is not capable of a 128+ performance,  those  i mention were and achieved it

    <br>128+ is TOP class performce, not one 3yo has reached this yet imhaho

    <br>But Court Masterpiece is some way behind George Washington to be honest he’s not at the same level. You can’t criticise the best of the three year olds because of Court Masterpieces rating. Personally I have Court Masterpice on 126, Araafa on 130 and George Washington on 133+.

    I had Dubawi on 129 and Shamardal on 127 thats not a million miles away from my rating of CM. You’re talking a pound or two which is the equvalent of not getting a gap, or the ground being less than ideal.

    Dylan Thomas beat OB and AG over a trip that isn’t his best so is capable of a higher rating still over twelve furlongs.

    Then you have Sir Percy who on his form so far has proved to be a better horse than Dylan Thomas over trips shorter than a mile and a half (hasn’t had chance against older horses yet).

    The 2000 Guineas form can’t be questioned surely? George Washington, Araafa, Sir Percy all came from that race and subsequently won group ones.

    #77912
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1208

    Quote: from empty wallet on 9:26 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]QB or AG are not capable of 128+ performances, Shirocco and HR are, thats why

    <br>Court Masterpiece is not capable of a 128+ performance,  those  i mention were and achieved it

    <br>128+ is TOP class performce, not one 3yo has reached this yet imhaho<br>

    Eh ok…but I think the posters point EP was that this years crop are up to standard with most years….ie, that they are not bad.  Are we saying that on an average year (and I mean average) there would be several 3 year olds in the high twenties??  In other words, do you also think that likes of DT and Aarafa are unusually poor or below standard??  If not, then are why are we slating them.  

    BTW, when did HR get this number…what was he after the Irish Derby??

    SHL

    #77913
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    If you believe CM is a 126 then fine i do not, nor do i believe Araafa is a 130 horse, nor GW 130+ horse yet, but he looks  very much capable of it

    #77914
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1208

    Quote: from empty wallet on 9:38 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]If you believe CM is a 126 then fine i do not, nor do i believe Araafa is a 130 horse, nor GW 130+ horse yet, but he looks  very much capable of it

    EH…I didnt say that…and you didnt answer my question…did you??

    SHL

    #77915
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    That wasn’t to you , it was to TMM, and if you give me the feckin time i will answer, but seeing your being uppity, i’ll decline and keep what i think to myself

    #77916
    newyork
    Member
    • Total Posts 215

    what every GW rating is come the end of the season it likely that he will be the the 1st since zafonic to be champion 2yr/3yr which takes some doing

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 36 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.