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Aidan O’Brien and the lads I mean.
Group Two Beresford today worth 70k euros to the winner yet O’Brien is allowed to win it (his finish 1-2-3 in fact) virtually unchallenged. Why the leading English yards don’t travel to Ireland more often to participate in these relatively richly endowed group races and serve it up to O’Brien is beyond me.
The fourth trained by his son and fifth by him again. All with basically the same owners. How is that beneficial to anyone bar those involved? Wouldn’t touch that with a barge pole as a punter. Does it put trainers off as well? Don’t see why it should.
I’d guess they’d say why travel over there to take on an O’Brien good thing. For me O’Brien and the team use these group races as education exercises for their horses, they must rub their hands when they see the lack of opposition.
Baffling why the English horses are kept over here for what are much more competitive affairs, in terms of depth at least.
I’d guess they’d say why travel over there to take on an O’Brien good thing.
I quite agree, they probably would. They would then probably whinge about prize money when 2nd in that Irish race is worth more than winning anything on offer here today. Even 3rd was £8k. Yes there’s a bit of cost getting over there but if we are talking about the bigger owners/yards that shouldn’t be an issue.
Are there not one or two jumps trainers/jockeys who occasionally head across the Channel? No harder to get to Northern France than Northern England if you are located dahn sahf.
Is it the same problem that Richard Hannon highlighted just a couple of weeks ago: very early closing dates for entry and high fees to supplement at the later stages? Knowing which will be your best late season two-years-olds in March or April is a bit of a guess, or betting your supplementary fee against the prize money available at unfavourable odds compared to the market, are not owner friendly. Or have HRI rubbished that notion?
I get the feeling most top trainers don’t even give it a second thought. There is an established 2 year old pattern in England that caters for all types and I think they would probably rather go for those races than send their young charges abroad. I have noticed a few of the more “modern” trainers sending horses abroad a bit more this year. Simon Crisford is one who has sent a couple to France where the prize money is also better. I suppose old habits die hard though!
You are right about these Group races being more like exercises than proper races though. I could have sworn that Exemplar was given an easy time of it by Seamie when Capri went past…..
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Boring race wasn’t it
A lot of these irish races are dreadfully uncompetitive, almost O’Brien benefits, like that sprint earlier where the winner is allowed to bowl along and the jockeys don’t even try to put it under any pressure
What Marginal Value says makes sense. If you had a 2 year old trained in England cormack, particularly Newmarket why would you favour todays race instead of yesterdays Royal Lodge unless your horse favoured soft ground and would you know that at entry stage?
Today’s race would have been an even poorer spectacle without most of O’Briens.
I’d target them as they are less competitive, almost invariably so. Do you think there’d be a Group 2 run in the UK that would resemble today’s training gallop?
I’d agree with above comment re-Exemplar. Definitely didn’t have full throttle on today.
Regarding the Royal Lodge vs Beresford, Aidan sent a couple of sighters to Newmarket yesterday, and a horse that would be regarded as a sixth string would have won the race in another couple of strides.
Aidan O’Brien and the lads I mean.
Group Two Beresford today worth 70k euros to the winner yet O’Brien is allowed to win it (his finish 1-2-3 in fact) virtually unchallenged. Why the leading English yards don’t travel to Ireland more often to participate in these relatively richly endowed group races and serve it up to O’Brien is beyond me.
Firstly, what makes you think that the leading British yards would win anyway? Seems Aidan is beating the British on their own turf this year in equivalent races .
Be great if the British and French did come over to Ireland. It is getting dreary, I barely even bother to take time out to watch Irish racing live now, (watch it later)
Richard Hughes recently explained that some of it is to due with the Irish requiring declaration months ahead at a steep enough cost and supplementing makes it not worth it.
Is it the same problem that Richard Hannon highlighted just a couple of weeks ago: very early closing dates for entry and high fees to supplement at the later stages? Knowing which will be your best late season two-years-olds in March or April is a bit of a guess, or betting your supplementary fee against the prize money available at unfavourable odds compared to the market, are not owner friendly. Or have HRI rubbished that notion?
Yes, more or less, they were pretty sarky with Hannon, if I recall .Hannon was correct
This is HRI response
I don’t think the English horses would necessarily win Twice Over but I think just letting Ballydoyle have their own way in these races while complaining about prize money, etc, is daft.
Not really coolmores fault now is it. They have a very strong team this season and as was said they very nearly won the royal lodge with a maiden. Maybe it is the entry system or maybe it’s due to old habits. The English win a lot of the good Irish sprints so why don’t they try and win the group races. Could be they don’t have many horses good enough this year especially as the likes of gosden and Varian are going through quiet spells. Not all these races are exercises Canter’s.last years moyglare for example. Minding,ballydoyle and Alice springs. Surely the hottest moyglare ever. I agree I thought exampler was definetely tenderly ridden and should be backed next time. I think all three in the Beresford could be very good horses. We shall see.
Richard Hannon Senior and Junior have a history of bringing over 2 year olds for listed and group races for 2 year olds. You reckon Hannon would be put off by Coolmore if he had the hindsight to declare a horse now in form? No. It is the declaration rules that is causing some of the issues. HRI response, even if a tiny bit true ie running scared of O’Brien, was unnecessary. However, when you have guys like the Hannons who do bring their horses over, there is some credibility to the complaint, more so than say………… Stoute , if he was minded to comment (He rarely brings horses over unless it is a good group 2 or a Group 1
Mickey’s point about some trainer not having enough bullets is spot on. Naturally, they was to keep them for some of the big group races in England. O’Brien has so many horses he has to give each horse a chance , whether it is Ireland or England. Sadly, for him , he has little choice but to run them against each other
Problem is, sometimes you fancy one of his horses more than O’Brien himself does and it turns out half way through the race your horse was sacrificed as the pace maker. (Hey not his fault) I recall my mate tipping me Sword Fighter for the Vase. 33/1 looked too big to ignore. Good enough to place, ignore the last run I was told. Half way through I am swearing to my self, a good horse who can do this distance being used as a bloody pace maker for an exposed horse (House of Parliament, considering the Group 3 win and place in Leger, turns out he is alright) What would I know, Sword Fighter wins and my mate looks like a genius
HRI need to care about what other trainers think. No one is going to bother going to the races if it continues to be an Aidan O’Brien Benefit day. Even the bookies are not going to do much bar the lunatic who will lob on a couple of hundred for an odds on favourite (though, helped at Champions Weekend)
Funny enough, for the fantastic card that was up on for both days of Irish Champions Weekend, the attendance from last year was……………DOWN!Leopardstown did not seem to be down, but the Chairman of the course said they were; but the Curragh was- horrible place when it is half full (track is lovely of course) . And the only distraction sport wise was French trials and look at the lack of horses turning up for that
Again not O’Brien’s fault. Bolger is having a very poor season and Weld, for all his winners is mainly relying on 3-4 decent horses to win decent races . Whatever happened to Bobby’s Kitten, the Breeder Cup Sprint winner? He was sent to Weld to run at Ascot. He appeared in Cork on awful ground for a listed race and won nicely.
I’d target them as they are less competitive, almost invariably so. Do you think there’d be a Group 2 run in the UK that would resemble today’s training gallop?
Can tell you don’t pay the training bills, you’d be skint if you did.
When exactly would you decide that the G2 in Ireland would be weaker than the G2 in England? Sunspangled has already said O’Briens 6th string would have won the Royal Lodge in a few more strides and it appears the ground is an irrelevance to you and that’s not even mentioning the early entry date or the high supplementary fee as well as transport.
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