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The times at Market Rasen’s last meeting were very slow which I put down to the rain before and during the meeting but today’s times were just as slow. Are they overwatering or are the distances out of kilter with the standard times?
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Isn’t it more likely that the horses are just really bad?
Isn’t it more likely that the horses are just really bad?
I don’t think so, Pinza, as the same horses are running at the likes of Stratford and producing times close to or faster than standard.
Tuffers
Having viewed the race replays, it looks to me that the rails are pushed out a fair way on the bends. Compared with previous meetings it looks as if the bends are pushed out just about to the maximum. On that basis there’s probably nigh on 100 yards extra per bend, and the best part of a furlomg per circuit. I would guess that would add around 10 seconds per circuit to the times. The ground didn’t look obviously slow so I would guess bend position would be the answer.
Some courses quoted the rails movement, and of my locals Perth and Hamilton normally do, but nothing from Market Rasen on this occasion.
Rob
Rails
Wood Bend rail out 2yds, turn out of home straight in 2yd, turn
into back straight out 2yds. Circuit distance increased by
approximately 7yds.Watering
Monday – Saturday: 45-50mm irrigation applied to whole course.
Sunday AM – 3mm being applied to Wood Bend.That’s from the BHA site this morning. Accuracy I can’t guarantee!
Jose
Well, if that’s the case then it’s not the position of the bends!
I can’t see that the bends can be pushed much wider, so I’d be intrigued to know the line that they take the course measurement from. Might be worth dropping Lehka a line if she doesn’t see this thread, seeing as she’s now the Clerk Of the Course at Market Rasen.
Rob
Just to knock my own theory totally on the head, I just checked the replays for July 3rd and the far bend was even wider then!
Maybe it was the watering …
Rob
- Total Posts 17716
Rails
Wood Bend rail out 2yds, turn out of home straight in 2yd, turn
into back straight out 2yds. Circuit distance increased by
approximately 7yds.Watering
Monday – Saturday: 45-50mm irrigation applied to whole course.
Sunday AM – 3mm being applied to Wood Bend.
That’s from the BHA site this morning. Accuracy I can’t guarantee!
That’s probably the equivalent of a month’s rainfall applied in just 6 days, and along with heavy showers in the area Tuesday, may well be the reason. That’s probably the equivalent of a month’s rainfall applied in just 6 days, and along with heavy showers in the area Tuesday, may well be the reason.Maybe that’s it. I don’t subscribe to the RP but does anyone know what their time-based ground assessment was?
It’s certainly frustrating to have courses such as Stratford and Market Rasen both call the ground ‘good’ when there seems to be quite a large disparity between the ground conditions at each track.
Market Rasen
31 Jul 2011
meeting resultsTIMES
RACE WINNER DIST TIME/F COMPARISON
COMP per F ALLOW TS
RPR OFFICIAL
GROUND T/BASED
GROUND2:00 General Eliott 2m1f 4m 13.10s
14.89s +13.10s
+0.77s — —
— Good —2:30 Eseej 2m1f 4m 16.10s
15.06s +16.10s
+0.95s — —
— Good —3:05 Jackson 2m5f 5m 26.40s
15.54s +29.40s
+1.4s — —
— Good —3:40 King In Waiting 2m3f 4m 41.90s
14.84s +15.90s
+0.84s — —
— Good —4:15 Knight Legend 2m4f 4m 54.10s
14.71s +7.10s
+0.36s — —
— Good —4:50 Seize 3m1f 6m 21.70s
15.27s +18.70s
+0.75s — —
— Good —5:20 Book´Em Danno 2m1f 4m 9.20s
14.66s +24.20s
+1.42s — —
— Good —I just wrote a very long response to the queries above which for some reason didn’t submit so I lost it…annoyed now!
Anyway, the crux of it was:
We have 2 running lines at Market Rasen, Summer & Winter. The Winter line is one the very inside of the track, the summer inner rail sits about halfway between the outermost and innermost points of the track. The start positions are altered between the two seasons. I then measure any distance alteration from the inner seasonal line and advertise any increase in the circuit distance.
In terms of the ground yesterday, it was a touch easier (thankfully as it has been quicker than ideal due to the unseasonably dry weather) than it has been in most of this season thanks to the rain we had on the 21st July (dry since) giving us an easier starting point for watering.
The jockeys described it as Good ground, perhaps just on the quicker side, but they felt it would be doing it a disservice to call it Good to Firm in places. The trainers who I spoke to who had walked the track also agreed that it was Good ground.I spoke to Dave Roberts last year about his Going Corrections and Standard Times just to get a better idea of how he works and the calculations he carries out. He told me that, since the track at Rasen was realigned in 2009, there is still not enough data to form wholly reliable standard times for the course, so the times produced cannot be used rigidly.
Another example is at Nottingham, which was realigned and 2 tracks created in 2008, where some of the Standard Times are faster than the course records!
Johnathon Neesom is usually the one I turn to for help with times at Market Rasen. He is very quick at letting me know if anything doesn’t add up but unfortunately he wasn’t there yesterday. I believe he was in the studio for RUK however, so perhaps someone who was watching heard him say something relevant?
All I hear him do is his usual sneering comments about the standard of horses, without any regard to the poor prizes they are now racing for. To be an owner today you need to be a benefactor of the whole industry. Can`t go on surely.
We have 2 running lines at Market Rasen, Summer & Winter. The Winter line is one the very inside of the track, the summer inner rail sits about halfway between the outermost and innermost points of the track. The start positions are altered between the two seasons. I then measure any distance alteration from the inner seasonal line and advertise any increase in the circuit distance.
Thanks for the detailed response, Lekha – much appreciated. It sounds as though the standard times are for the winter configuration which obviously makes a big difference.
It’s a shame these things don’t get publicised better as the impression given to someone looking at the times is that the going produced was on the soft side of good which encurages owners who want summer ground on the fast side of good to look elsewhere!
That’s probably the equivalent of a month’s rainfall applied in just 6 days, and along with heavy showers in the area Tuesday, may well be the reason.
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