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Low grade racing, as long as its fairly competitive, can be appealing. I am an occassional racegoer, and when I have planned a day at the races the one thing that annoys is too few runners. A card of 7 races where 3 or 4 have less than 8 runners can feel like I am being short changed. I like races of 8+ runners. They can be flat or jump, sand or turf.
The class of a race doesn’t bother me. I like big races, like graded races, but these can often be uncompetitive in relation to class 6 handicaps. Each to their own I suppose.
What is important is that the variety remains. If there were no class 6 races then the definition of dross would become class 5. If no class 5 or 6 races then class 4 would become the dross. In football, if League 2 is regarded as dross, then without a league 2 League 1 would become "the dross". Class 6 serves a purpose – to be the lowest class on offer – but at least it serves a purpose!!
Without meaning to be unkind , Dross is all AW races for 0/55 range , unfortunately most of those appear at Kempton in the winter
like ir or loathe it , it happens , a load of races run where first prize is less than 2k , its a shame but thats the game we have
good thing is you can just ignore them
Ricky
Well into the second page now yet not one answer as per the question, despite some sensible responses from the likes of GC, Max and Doug.
All I asked was for a mark for both NH and flat at which one considers racing to be dross as it’s a phrase frequently used on here apparently against a certain type of racing.
One person who has looked for balance before is not alone on this this thread in continuing the "flat/AW is dross or uncompetitive" conveniently forgetting the masses of uncompetitive NH fare – at least most flat races are still undecided within the final furlong.
So, again, can any of you whether using the term or not, put a figure to ‘dross’?
(for both NH and flat, unless you think and can state that there is no such thing as dross over obstacles)
Simon – I think my response was quite unambiguous when I defined it as "uncompetitive" racing – it is
not
related to the grade of racing.
For some reason you seem to think it can be defined by applying a number – I don’t believe it can be defined thus.
There can be uncompetitive races in
all
forms of racing.
Okay, seeing as my question may just have been impossibly specific for the esteemed minds here who can readily use the phrase ‘dross’ but not so readily define it, at least with a rating which is the direction/context the phrase has been mostly used toward, I’ll try another way, hopefully easier.
Can anyone, looking now at today’s races, let me know which races they consider to be ‘dross’?
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I don’t see this as a complicated issue at all. You turn on your computer, go to your favourite website and click on race cards or you open your daily.If your first impression is JC!!!! almighty look at this lot your looking at dross.
It can be anywhere in the country but more often than not it’s at an all weather track and if Frankie isn’t riding best you close it down and go to the pub.
Of course if your not betting watching a race on the all weather can be as exciting as watching a Group 1 race but not many people who watch don’t bet.
- Total Posts 17716
Okay, seeing as my question may just have been impossibly specific for the esteemed minds here who can readily use the phrase ‘dross’ but not so readily define it, at least with a rating which is the direction/context the phrase has been mostly used toward, I’ll try another way, hopefully easier.
Can anyone, looking now at today’s races, let me know which races they consider to be ‘dross’?
Well Kempton looks ok from a betting point of view and I’ve seen worse at Wolverhamton but Ayr wins hands down for me. Looks very trappy and the chances of betting winners is very remote.
Maiden Auction races are a big no no. Anything that’s still a maiden in one of those races at this time of the year is there because they want to get rid of it.
You have a nursery handicap which are always dangerous to bet in and the rest are low class handicaps that will have you tearing your hair out and betting something you know can’t win through desperation.
Don’t know if there’s any fillies races today but you’ll find plenty off dross in those. Even the good one’s can’t be trusted as they are very likely to run like a mule completely out of the blue. The seasonal coat is changing, it’s getting colder and some fillies hate that and the newspapers and websites can’t tell you that.
I’ll answer the original question:
Anything rated above 0 is always worth enjoying. The rest is ‘dross’.
Mike
Fair answer Fist and while i see where you’re coming from, just because we look at a card and think "JesusH – where’s the winner coming from there" that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s dross as it could mean it’s too difficult to pick a winner from, ie, too ‘competitive’ – which is the other word some posters use to determine dross or not.
From Paul’s angle, fields of horses that haven’t managed more than a win or two between them in their recent outings, I’m assuming he is thinking the 2.55 and 3.55 at Wetherby today are a bit drossy.
It’s funny really, ‘dross’ is generally aimed at a certain type/class of racing but when asking for a definition by mark, it can’t be done and generalities that can equally well apply to more NH racing are wheeled out but NH is still largely ignored when discussing dross.
In a way, it’s like moaning about the proliferation of lawless young criminals without mentioning one’s child is in nick for multiple similar offences.
Can anyone, looking now at today’s races, let me know which races they consider to be ‘dross’?
In all honesty I’d probably struggle to, unless I count a superficial, two-minute look at each race as enough to evaluate fully their merits. And from a point of both equitability and professional integrity, I wouldn’t do that.
And therein lies a key point, I think. Writing off a race as "dross" is as often a not a reflection on how assiduously the critic has or hasn’t examined the race, as much as it is of the race itself. On first glance this morning the Wolverhampton card I’m covering in a formal capacity tonight looked like one pretty splendid 0-90 handicap and five makeweights of limited appeal, but I expect by the time I’ve examined the nuances of all six races properly my view of the card as a whole will be rather more favourable.
Whilst I’ve rattled on often enough on TRF that, on balance, I don’t think there is too much racing, I do concede that on any given day there is often insufficient time available to analyse all meetings entirely credibly. We all have our favourite sorts of betting races, and for my own purposes tomorrow’s lower-grade jumps cards interest me far more than any of today’s three premier Flat and jumps meetings. However, in the interests of fairness it behoves us all to regard the races we’ve not had a look at as "not my thing", rather than dismiss them as "dross" out of hand.
So, I’m no nearer a definitive answer for you, Simon. Sorry!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Tonight or this evening depending on your mood
, Kempton stage a 7 race card , kicking off with an 0/50 class 7 , need we say any more , this is an appetiser for the dross that will follow over the winter , first prize is 2047 , which is probably more than the entire field is worthHonestly who could go and watch that ??
cheers
Ricky
Simon – what is dross is a personal view.
I happen to think most all weather racing is dross and simply run as betting fodder to line bookmakers pockets and I also happen to think the overwhelming majority of National Hunt is not dross.
You hold a contrary view – neither of us is actually right or wrong – we just hold differing opinions.
Yes I openly and happily admit I do not enjoy 95% of all weather races – but why pretend you like something you don’t?
I may or may not be in a minority with my views but that is not an issue – I know what I like.
We may not agree with one anothers interpretation of what "dross" may or may not be. At the end of the day let us just all enjoy what we individually prefer.
The important thing, a point I raised earlier, is we have diversity and choice in this country. We can pick and choose what racing we like or wish to criticise.
As you rightly say Paul, differing opinions and none are right or wrong. Personally I find the AW a good betting medium and the dross up at Ayr today as Fist would have it has provided me with some good action. I’d agree there is some poor racing in both codes that isn’t all to inspiring but would we do away with low level saturday football or rugby or cricket because the participants are never going to amount to anything? Not all horses bred can be superstars and those that own the lower grade runners have as much right to run their horses as the super rich who can throw a blank cheque book at the best. If people don’t like certain races, it’s not as though your not spoilt for choice.
Well into the second page now yet not one answer as per the question,
What part of
60
don’t you understand Simon?
That is the mark you asked for (for the flat).
I think jump racing is a little different. I can put up with hunter chases of a slightly lower standard. As it is amateur. I usually only think of betting in two hunter chases each season anyway. Similar for NHF races, if you can call them "races". "Dawdles" would be a better name. Can’t see much point in NHF races, just as well go straight over hurdles. But that is a subject for another thread.
Value Is EverythingI understood 60 fine ginge, it was a precise answer and the best of most according to the question but as per the question there was no rating for the jumps.
Okay you’ve explained why but I would ask again, what rating for the jumps would you consider below which is dross?
There has to be one if one is being balanced as both codes have ratings for the same reason which is to quantify an animal’s ability.
It’s not that difficult is it?
, Kempton stage a 7 race card , kicking off with an 0/50 class 7 , need we say any more , this is an appetiser for the dross that will follow over the winter , first prize is 2047 , which is probably more than the entire field is worth
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