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Hi , im new to this so please forgive the dumb questions .
Could someone please shed some light on the subject of weight carried by a horse . On the racecard it has the weight carried by the horse in stones and pounds , the thing im not quite sure about is dose that weight include any deduction for an apprentice jockey and also if the official handicap rating has gone down is this also included .
Its a minefield that im trying to understand , ive visited several websites but i still cannot find a cast stone answer .
If my horse is due to carry 10-5 but its OR figure has gone down by 2 lbs and it has a jockey claiming 3lbs dose that then mean its only carrying 10-0 .
GRRRRRRRRRR , please help .
Should i also be paying more attention to the weight carried as oppose to the OR figure . Some tipping sites say that a horse is 6lb higher than its last win so it dosn’t really stand a chance yet its weight carried is now 4lb less .
Please help !!!!Hi tobie110
If a horse is set to carry 10-0 with a 7lb claimer riding, he will go to the scales and be allocated 9-7, if by chance the claiming jockey was replaced by Jamie Spencer the jockey will go to the scales at 10-0.
In the results section of the
Sporting Life
, the results will show that if the horse was to win the weight he carried was 10-0 with the 7lb claimer riding, the
Racing Post
results will show 9-7, they deduct the riders allowance.
Do not get confused if a horses official rating has dropped by 2lb, this would automatically be adjusted to what weight the horse was allocated on the day, you do not have to subtract it.
The weight listed in your paper is the weight it is set to carry by the race conditions. If the apprentice is claiming then their claim will be in brackets after their name and this should be taken off the weight next to the horse.
Official ratings are important in handicaps as Weatherbys will have allotted the weight to be carried using the official rating. Ratings are altered (after a run) every Tuesday. Horses can run again – carrying a penalty – before their new ratings come into effect and this is a way some trainers can get some quick wins into them.
If the minimum weight, in the race conditions, is set to be above the weight the horse should carry in relation to it’s OR it is said to be "out of the handicap". Horses which are well out of the handicap are usually to be avoided as you’d be going against the official consideration of the handicappers.
I do like to look at the ways ORs change – easily done on the Racing Post site or paper. I like to see horses which have dropped in ratings but are still showing they retain their ability. However this is just my person opinion.
Ask away if you have any other questions – that is what the site is for!
GRRRRRRRRRR , please help .
Should i also be paying more attention to the weight carried as oppose to the OR figure . Some tipping sites say that a horse is 6lb higher than its last win so it dosn’t really stand a chance yet its weight carried is now 4lb less .
Please help !!!!Hi Tobie,
When "form students" talk about a horse being "6 lbs higher than its last win" – they are talking about the OR (official rating) being 6 lbs higher than last time.In yesterday’s 2:30 Sandown, the top OR horse was Arbaah off a rating of 83, so he carried top weight of 9-7. Had the top weight’s rating been less than 83 it would
still
have carried 9-7. As it is Debdebdeb’s rating was 80, so carried
3 lbs less
than Arbaah on 9-4 (83 – 80 = 3).
If the handicapper puts up Debdebdeb 6lbs then the rating next time will be 86 (80 + 6 = 86). But the weight carried
depends on the top weight
‘s rating. So if running in a better race where top weight is rated 95 – where top weight is 9-7 then Debdebdeb will be 9 lbs below top weight (95 – 86 = 9), carrying 8-12 (unless ridden by an apprentice). Yet despite
actually
carrying 6 lbs
less
(8-12 compared to 9-4) – we racing nuts talk of the weight being "6 lbs
higher
" because the OR rating is 6 lbs higher (86 compared to 80). Confusing isn’t it.
Third horse at Sandown was Portmonarch who carried 9-6. If his OR is dropped 1 lb (from 82 to 81), then (if meeting again next time) he would reopose Debdebdeb on 7 lbs "better terms". Getting 5 lbs from Debdebdeb instead of giving 2 lbs.
The actual weight carried is not important (*) and is best to ignore it. It is the
weight in relation
to the other runners (OR ratings) that punters need to focus on.
* The only times actual weight carried might become an issue are: When a horse is so small may be physically unable to carry big weights. Or a big horse that might carry big weights better than a smaller one. Though horse size is not an issue novice punters should worry about.
Hope that helps Tobie.
Everyone starts somewhere and don’t be afraid to ask.Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Thanks all for the answers .
So in theory if the top rated horse in a handicap has had its rating dropped , then this should be the one to focus on . I appreciate this is a very vague way of looking at it but im just trying to get my head round the OR’s .
I have read so many books on horse racing and gambling in general but there always seems to be an air of secrecy on certain subjects and try as i could , i was finding it very difficult to uncover any information on how OR’s were made up and how they worked in comparison with the weights allocated .
I understand trainers sometimes do not run there horses to their full potential thus the rating figure drops the next time they run , this makes matters even more confusing but i suppose unless you have a crystal ball and can read minds then that is just one of the pitfulls of racing .
Thanks again for your helpfull adviceYou may find this interesting. You can download the official guide to handicapping. http://www.britishhorseracing.com/insid … apping.asp
Thanks all for the answers .
So in theory if the top rated horse in a handicap has had its rating dropped , then this should be the one to focus on . I appreciate this is a very vague way of looking at it but im just trying to get my head round the OR’s .
I have read so many books on horse racing and gambling in general but there always seems to be an air of secrecy on certain subjects and try as i could , i was finding it very difficult to uncover any information on how OR’s were made up and how they worked in comparison with the weights allocated .
I understand trainers sometimes do not run there horses to their full potential thus the rating figure drops the next time they run , this makes matters even more confusing but i suppose unless you have a crystal ball and can read minds then that is just one of the pitfulls of racing .
Thanks again for your helpfull adviceIt does not matter whether the top rated horse is dropped Tobie. It’s each horse’s OR compared to every other horse in the race that matters.
The OR is a rating the handicapper believes a horse is capable of given optimum condititions Tobie. If a horse is dropped it does
not
mean the trainer has "not run there horses to their full potential". It just means the handicapper thinks the horse is no longer capable of running to its old rating or that he (the handicapper) has made a mistake with the old rating.
If I were you I’d forget completely about actual weights carried and concentrate on whether each OR over or under-estimates its chance of winning compared to price/value… Of course picking out the occasions a trainer runs their horse without showing its "full potential" comes in to that equation.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Point taken , ive been looking at a certain race today and i can’t quite figure out what the situation is with a certain horse . The race is the 5.10 at Beverley and the horse is Mey Blossom . The last itme it ran it was carrying a weight of 8-13 and the OR was 62 , it was also ridden by an apprentice that claimed 5lb . Todays OR and weight is exactly the same as last time but without the apprentice claim . So where has the 5lb gone . Is it already included in the OR or have you got to take that off yourself , i know a 5lb claim would be an advantage last time but i thought without the claimer this time the weight or the OR would of been different .
Apologies , im just trying to get my head round this .It is just a coincidence that
Mey Blossom
is set to carry the same weight today of 8-13.
The weight of 8-13 is not a constant from race to race, the weight allocated on the day depends on the race conditions (see top of race card), the trainer might drop the horse in class, he will still have an official rating of 62 and in a 0-65 handicap he might have to carry top weight of 9-7.
Yes as our Blues friend says it is all comparative to the race conditions.
At Beverley on 22nd July the race was 0-75 handicap and the highest rated horse was Come On Dave. He was rated 75 so carried 9st 12lb (top weight). Mey Blossom was rated 62 so received 13 pounds from him – 8st 13lb – although as she was ridden by a 5 pound claimer she actually carried 8st 8lb (this is the weight mentioned in the Racing Post tabulated result).
Yesterday she was still rated 62 and the top weight – Tyfos – was also rated 75 so 13 pound differential. This time she carried the 8st 13lb because Tom Eaves doesn’t claim.
I imagine that she’ll have her rating dropped on Tuesday. However what weight she carries in future races will all depend on how many pounds she is rated below the highest rated horse in that race. If she is dropped to 60 (for example) she could end up being top weight in a 0-60 handicap..
PS Don’t worry too much about weights actually carried (apprentice allowances/overweight). It is the handicappers job to factor this into a horses’ revised rating.
You are doing the right thing if you’re watching how a horses OR is changing in relation (in your opinion) to the way it is running. Ignore the actual weight carried…
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