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Supercede won at Perth tonight and is due to run again tomorrow at the same track.
When i looked at the cards earlier he was down as an official rating of 98. This same info is still showing at time of writing on the Sporting Life website.
However Racing Post now has his OR as 105 and his weight at 12-1 for tomorrow. The weight is correct to go up as conditions state after July 17th, each hurdle won 7lb.
My understanding was official ratings changed on a weekly basis and although a penalty would be carried the OR remains the same until the handicapper has a look.
Are the RP at fault here or have i got it wrong?
Appreciate any clarification/thoughts!
I think the offical position is Supercede’s Offical Handicap Mark will remain at 98 for the purpose of race entries and he runs with a penalty/penalties as conditions state until a week Saturday where upon a new offical mark may come into effect. The timeline being:
# All runs upto this Saturday will be assessed by the OH and a new OH mark (if any) will be published next Tuesday/Wednesday which is applied to races the following Saturday.
However as the 7Ibs pen does affectively mean Supercede will be racing off a mark of 105 in relation to the other horses in the race the Racing Post simply add the 7Ibs pen to the existing OH to mark the differential.
The Life racecards appear to show the latest known OR even if it doesn’t apply until a future date and they also don’t include any penalties in todays race
If you look at Life racecards for handicaps the ORs as shown often don’t bear much relation to the weight to be carried in todays race
I prefer the way the Post does it – to show the rating as it relates to the weights in todays race.
Pompete is correct
The RP’s addition of the 7lb penalty to the OR is a little confusing as it isn’t a new ‘official’ rating just a conditional hike in the weights for winning. The 7x (extra) next to Supercede’s name on the card refers to the penalty.
The Sporting Life cards haven’t been updated as yet to include yesterday’s win, presumably because the win occurred at circa 8.15pm last night
The handicap marks on the Sporting Life site are dangerous to take at face value – the feed they get from the PA is not the most reliable!
The RP’s addition of the 7lb penalty to the OR is a little confusing as it isn’t a new ‘official’ rating just a conditional hike in the weights for winning
Yes i agree. I shall check later and see what they put in the result, id guess they will have to revert back to the ‘official’ rating as it is.
I can see why some may prefer the addition but id like to see the figures displayed as facts and from what is being said they should be displaying the weight penalty as they are but the OR should not be increased.
The reason they simply add the penalty to the OR may be due to column formatting problems if they used say 98(+7x)
Timeform updated the racecard this morning and they too use 105 with (7lb ex) after the 12-1 weight carried, unlike RP who put 7x after the horse’s name
For racecard purposes just think of 105 as ‘mark will run off’ rather than OR
For racecard purposes just think of 105 as ‘mark will run off’ rather than OR
And on the Post site 105 would be the mark that will appear in the horse’s form page for time immemorial……
I’d rather look down the horses form and see what marks it actually ran off in it’s races, than see what it’s OR might have been at any particular time, which is what you get on the Life horse pages
Agreed Slowly Away
Dunno if the Sporting Life site qualifies as a formbook, but all others I’m aware of record ‘mark ran off’ in their form, and rightly so since it’s a significant form factor.
As with penalties, an increase in mark allocated due to overweight or being out of the handicap is recorded as such
Unlikely to be the case with Supercede but it’s not unusual for the eventual rise in OR for a win to be less than the immediate imposition of penalty e.g OR rises 5 while penalty was 7; hence you see a – superficially odd – rise and fall in mark recorded
On the BHA website there is (along with a lot of other interesting stuff) a ‘Detailed Guide to Handicapping’ and this is what is says about penalties.
Penalties
The Handicappers only get the chance to change their ratings once a week, in time for the publication on Tuesday morning. The latest form that they are allowed to take into account is up to the end of Saturday.
If a horse wins a handicap then its rating will almost certainly go up. Since we thought that every horse had an equal chance, the winner will normally have run to a higher level than his current rating.
The average amount that the rating of a handicap winner goes up is eight pounds for jump racing and six pounds for Flat races. It would not be fair to let the winner run again off the handicap rating from which it has just won since this would not give its opponents an equal chance. If connections want to run again before we have had the chance to reassess the rating then they can do so but must carry a penalty. This is typically the same as those average rises; and it is added to the weight calculated from the old rating. It is the fairest way of making things equal before the new ratings come into effect.
I think and I’m sure it’s been mentioned on here before, the Sportinglife just take the OH from the latest available list from the BHA, which is available on a spreadsheet from the website on a Wednesday. As, in the past I have come across gee-gees on the SL site running on a Thursday or Friday with OH marks that don’t come into effect until the Saturday.
An example of the confusion caused by the way the Life do it…..
Tomorrow at 4.55 Nottingham, 10F handicap
Montego Breeze – 4-8-9 , OR52
Kingaroo – 4-8-9, OR 47Those are obviously the ‘new’ ratings as from the weekend
In fact if you look at the weights of the other horses, both of the above are actually runing of a mark of 55 tomorrow.
The Life will record 52 and 47 as the OR on the horses form, so in a years time you’re looking at Kingaroo in a race and think he ran off 47 whereas in fact he ran off 55
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