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Just browsing through the YouTube comments….. People seem to have their own opinion and it’s just one opinion by the look of things.
I wouldn’t say it was a fix, but the result was the one Coolmore wanted.
The fact Whirl was deployed as pacemaker with stable jockey on the other one tells you how they were looking to shape the race. But doesn’t mean it was ‘fixed’.
Don’t want to believe what you read on the Internet it is full of fruit loops
The more I know the less I understand.
I’ve emailed Luck on Sunday to ask that it be discussed among this week’s Talking Points. Let’s see if they include it…
They got it right, simple as that
short priced favourite had stamina question marks
and they didn’t hold backGaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Was it a fix? Impossible to say.
Would the outcome have been different if the jockeys were swapped? Yes.
Wayne Lordon is a good judge of pace when up with that pace, but it ends there. He is awful otherwise and very weak in a finish, seemingly particularly when up against the Ballydoyle first string.The number of times a Ballydoyle second string has won in a “battle” with the first string will naturally be fewer than the other way about. Because the first string usually has the better form going into the race… And / or home gallops have indicated the first string is better…
However, taking all that into consideration: In recent years the percentage of second strings that beat the first string in good race battles should be greater than it is… Am sure there must be one somewhere, but I can’t remember a recent example… And it looks even worse when the jockey seems so weak on the runner-up.
Value Is Everything“The fact Whirl was deployed as pacemaker with stable jockey on the other one tells you how they were looking to shape the race”.
I wouldn’t describe Whirl’s performance as “pacemaker” as such. Previous form shows she’s is a natural front runner and all three Ballydoyle horses looked much more 12f horses than the fav going into the race. So Whirl setting a strong pace was understandable and I don’t think it was TOO strong – to his credit Lordon set pretty even fractions. Not detriment to his own chances. The jockey just weak in the finish.
Value Is EverythingCoolmore ‘set it up’ by deploying a pacemaker however what troubled me more was the fact it seemed to won by stamina alone?
Which ever way you want to slice and dice it to my mind there wasn’t anything exceptional on show with the favourite disappointing.
good luck to allIt wasn’t a fix – if Whirl wasn’t a natural front runner then it would have raised questions to see those front running tactics being used with her but that wasn’t the case.
Whirl clearly had a good chance and if Ryan had picked her, it was neigh on a certainty that he would have made the running on her as well and then it is very much an open question as to whether he would have given her a much more forceful ride in the finish (have seen him do both).
A pacemaker in most instances are usually exposed horses with a high enough overall level of form to be good enough to be used as sacrificial lambs to set the race up for the stable’s clear number one………that wasn’t the case in the Oaks and it would also be the same for today’s Derby (from which Ruling Court is now a non-runner).
I disagree respectfully that Ryan would have made the running on Whirl. If they were swapped I reckon the eventual winner makes the running and Ryan sits in the box seat on Whirl. You never see Ryan making the running if they have multiple options. I’m bored of talking about it to be honest, it is what it is and you know when you back one of the second or third strings they’ve a good chance of hitting the frame anyway because they’re obviously well bred etc but if its a close finish they probably don’t win. We see it time and time again, Kingscote in that trial at Lingfield, the stinker of a ride Heffernan gave Adelaide River, there will be others. And today obviously wasn’t a close finish and the fav ran a stinker so Lordan didn’t have to hold back and that tends to be the way, 2nd or 3rd string wins if the 1st string isn’t even close. For me its miles worse than Mullins running multiple horses because all of Aidan’s are in the same ownership and they have vested interests in the breeding.
I did think of mischievously starting a thread entitled “Is Aidan O’Brien’s Domination Boring” along the lines of the Mullins thread.
I agree it is a key difference that whereas Mullins trains for multiple owners, O’Brien only trains for The Lads. That does raise questions. The 2023 Irish Derby being one of them.
O’Brien is obviously very good at what he does. He is polite and courteous with the media and generous with his time. However, seeing him win the Oaks and Derby yet again is difficult to get excited about and his interviews thanking dozens of people no one outside his circle have ever heard of are utterly tedious.
No disrespect to him but I hope someone else wins the Derby next year.
I haven’t really researched it so could be talking claptrap but often I think they have one fancied one on the pace (front runner or prominent) and one off the rear end when they have multiple horses with solid chances, covering all pace angles you might say.
Magnier is clearly a highly intelligent individual so he probably mixes it all up so his opponents have to keep guessing.As I posted in the Derby Day thread, Aidan has a 10.58% strike rate in the Derby, with only 5 of his 11 winners being the first string.
Sheer weight of numbers is working in his favour.
Just been through AOB’s Oaks record and it’s 11 from 82, so a slightly healthier 13.41% success rate. It’s pretty obvious why The Lads throw fewer darts at the fillies’ classic.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that the second was used as a pacemaker to set the race up for the winner. Just think it’s a pity for the race that a well-backed and impressive winner of the Musidora was used in that way and all credit to her that she still nearly won.
David Jennings appears to be leading the fawning this morning:
Looks at the numbers, David.
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