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The choirboy quoted in todays Post has set himself a target of 50 winners this season. From a stable of only 120 horses I think he might be tilting at windmills!!!!
Can’t wait for John Gosden to set himself the target of winning the Brittania stakes at Royal Ascot from a stable of 150 bluebloods or Ed Dunlop to have a target of winning a group 3 from a similar stable of immaculately bred thoroughbreds! No doubt Mick Channon will manage to bottom a hundred + classically bred 2 year olds as well this year.
How these serial underachievers continue to blag their way along is beyond me! I wouldn’t trust any of them to train a dog to s**t
on the floor!
Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.
What about a list of trainers you would trust to train a dog to etc etc (though why you would ask them to do it is beyond me…)?
Mineshaft-We always really liked him-Gosden.Thats why you start him 8 times as a baby without ever getting his head in front and never run him on the polytrack or sand.2003 Horse of the year and near unbeatable.<br>Collier Hill-Dumped out unraced.new connections require medical treatment from recurrent dizzy spells induced by collecting cheques.<br>Les Arcs-Kicked off at either 8 or 10f well beyond his subsequent optimal group1 winning trip of 6f.<br>further back Halling post Goden record compared to his previous.<br>Thats what I can recall off the top of my head but I invite further contributions.Turning group horses into handicappers and winning early season "classics" which amount to little more than glorified conditions events with a groaning arsenal is a pen portrait in failure.Add to that look how wayward and ungenuine his colts race and the only conclusion is that Bear’s colorful description was much too lenient.
Bear and Beauzam ~ harsh, but fair. I’d like to see a table of prizemoney won by trainer as a factor of total cost of horses in the yard. That would open a few eyes.
Quote: from cormack15 on 10:02 pm on May 9, 2007[br]Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.  <br>
Benny The Dip, Lahan, Shantou………..which of Gosden’s many other Classic winners have i missed?
Given the ammunition at his disposal, he is hardly Vincent O’Brien.
(Edited by Smithy at 4:27 pm on May 10, 2007)
This is a difficult area. Stoute – who is suly an excellent trainer? – allowed Alkasaad and Sublimity to be sold ( without finding another buyer to pick them up and so retain them in his stable ) whilst the excellent Mark Johnston let Darsalam ( another G1 winner) go for only £6500.
I guess if you have massive strings of horses and have to dispose of 60 to 70 horses a year you are bound to let a few ‘diamonds’ go ?
All the big owner/breeder operations and top trainers have a culling process whereby they dispose of the ones who aren’t top class, who are exposed or don’t fit in with their breeding programmes.<br>Inevitably some with ability slip through the net or realise their potential elsewhere where they receive more individual attention away from a large string.<br>For example I think Abdulla/Juddmonte are a very professional operation, but sold subsequent Group winner Vortex and useful dual purpose horse Self Defense for around £20k
Quote: from Smithy on 4:22 pm on May 10, 2007[br]
Quote: from cormack15 on 10:02 pm on May 9, 2007[br]Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.  <br>
Benny The Dip, Lahan, Shantou………..which of Gosden’s many other Classic winners have i missed?
Given the ammunition at his disposal, he is hardly Vincent O’Brien.
(Edited by Smithy at 4:27 pm on May 10, 2007)<br>
<br>Sympathy with the general point being made but Oasis Dream was champion sprinter
I must say that John Gosden is my favourite flat trainer,however I do remember him training a rather one paced stayer called Istabraq, and sometimes wonder why he didn’t spot that this fellow was a speed horse?
I’m sure that many, many smaller owners are glad that these megalithic stables sell horses which, with different caring regimes and closer attention can win good races. The whole reselling game would collapse if all they ever sold was the duds.
Michael Hill, (owner of Quito), may have brought a few slow horses from the Maktoums, but he’s more than paid for them with the wins this great character achieved.
Btw, have Coolmore ever sold a horse who went on to become a significant winner for someone else?
Guys if the horse is good enough anyone can train it. Tell me if Mick Halford or John Quinn had the expensive blue bloods that Aiden O Brien and Said bin Suroor have in their care, they wouldnt be able to do the same job ?????????????????
Strictly speaking colts,Clive Brittain is criminally underequipped.The advent of Godolphin has ushered with it the under racing of horses in order to preserve face(they don’t like too lose).<br>There is a knock on effect among the arab owners and programming is also problematic.Ireland races infrequently and there are weight penalties for showing your hand elsewhere.<br>This is where my issue with Gosden arises with the inverse proportionality between his talk(god given ability to schmooze owners) and walk(results versus means).<br>APO gets the runs in to them as 2yolds and sets them up for their classic year and whilst I’m not a fawning devotee he thereby gives them a chance.<br>I don’t know about Halford.Murtagh is an enormous asset granted, but he may lack the security enjoyed by Oxx,O’brian,and Weld to burn a number of candidates before winning something like the Epsom Derby.
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