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Have to say I doubt I have seen an unluckier loser than her yesterday. McGrath is not a jockey I like but Henderson seems to and he is clearly a better judge than me. However if a better jockey had ridden her yesterday she would have won easily. I would imagine her mark will go up again which is sad because come the spring off it she would be a good bet in one of the spring handicaps on fats ground. As the saying goes the bird as flown.
Hurry back Nico.Hi Droffats
Very interesting ride,not so “unlucky” to these eyes,I think she finnished exactly where required.Minimal effort the whole way round,including up the home straight.
Her profile is intriguing,I do wonder if she will be put away until spring,especially if we get slower ground some time soon.Her run at newbury back in February, in another hot handicap, was just as promising.Not sure she will go up much after that,what I did like was the fact her best work seemed late on,suggesting she would have no problem getting 2m 4f.
The first two home in the mares hurdle this year,day 1 festival,were rated 147 and 145 respectively,that 151 or similar would not put me off should she go there later in the season,no surprise if she is way better than what we have seen.One to tuck away in the notebook, major interest wherever entered,looks very ground dependant on what we have seen.Well spotted.
Few caught the eye in behind,worth remembering Mohaayed was tailed off in this race last year,that did him no harm further down the line.Often thought of this race,and Hennessey later this month,as really good pointers for yards to assess just where their horses stand handicap wise.Nightmare punting wise no doubt,but its a big part of the puzzle that is easily overlooked in the heat of battle.
As for your jockey comment,aye he is next to useless,but so too was Tinkler.Very odd when we consider they have a jockey coach attached to the yard,perhaps like Verdana he is work in progress.
Would agree with Tinkler but I don’t like saying to much about poor rides or jockeys on here because people get upset and you get accused of either never ridden a horse or talking through one’s pocket.
However you can add Bass to the list who surprisingly also comes from the Henderson stable.It’s not that people get upset with that sort of comment, droffats; it’s that those making such derisory comments as “next to useless” get upset when another TRFer (who strongly disagrees with that opinion) replies (defends) in equally strong terms…
Why shouldn’t jockeys and trainers be defended in equally strong terms just because the person doing the derisory comments is a TRFer and the jockey/trainer/owner a non-TRFer?
If someone said you were useless at your job and you’re not there to defend yourself; do you not deserve to be defended?
I’ll defend anyone who I believe has been wrongly maligned. In doing so I need to point out where the person has got it wrong and possibly even needing to criticise the person’s race reading skills. If that makes me unpopular here so be it.
Value Is EverythingThat was her third run in a month, second in a week and I suspect that McGrath was advised to be fair on the horse.
Most Greatwood Hurdles/big fields are run at a good or at least reasonable pace; this year’s renewal was not. Punters, trainers and jockeys alike could work out the likely pace beforehand – there not being any out and out front-runner and not as many prominent runners as usual either. So there was reason for a jockey to be nearer the pace and maybe should have been put in to a more forward position early on. But that was surely a decision made by trainer as well as jockey… And even when there doesn’t look to be many prominent runners in a big field; the plain fact is a lot of the time the big field itself means they end up going a reasonable pace… Some horses are happier in behind and Verdana Blue has been extremely well suited by hold up tactics (as it was with McGrath on board in the Elite Hurdle). Whether he’d be as effective ridden more prominently? May be from what they’ve done with her at home Henderson believes not.
Speed is her forte Had they done things differenly and it had been a reasonable pace; punters may well have said “what was that idiot jockey doing” when she got beat?Verdana Blue – although held up – did make ground and at the usual third last although not in the ideal posi’ (being a hold up horse) wasn’t that far behind. Situation probably made even worse by not many hurdles both in the early and latter stages. No reason to give room at obsticles… and it’s not a surprise McGrath first couldn’t find a way through and then too far back to challenge the leaders. Yes, Verdana Blue is quite a bit better than finishing position suggests. Was it a bad ride? It wasn’t good, but imo not the worst either – more a victim of circumstances. It’s what can happen to hold up horses when races end up being run like that.
Must say, winner Nietzsche got a brilliant ride by an extremely promising 7 lb conditional jockey – Daniel McMenamin… And that should really be the story here.
Value Is EverythingI see your point now Droffats.
“Next to useless” was my comment,nothing to do with the OP.
There is a great thread on here titled “Bryony”,highlighting a jockey who is riding at the top of her game,week in week out,I share those sentiments.
I have yet to see her reply,no doubt she is a regular here and will be along shortly to respond.
We also have an “extremely promising 7lb conditional jockey”,an opinion.
This is a sport where opinions will be divided,whether horse / trainer / jockey / handicapping etc
Long that may continue,but that opinion surely must cover both the positives /negatives.
My opinion is based on years of race watching,not one ride by the jockey in question.
Cliques are not the problem here.
The trouble with making truly objective comments on a ride is that – experienced as you might be as a race-reader – 99% of the time you have no idea what has happened in the race. A horse might not act on a track and take some time to get balanced; a sprint can be lost by a horse changing legs at the wrong time (how many punters can spot a horse changing legs?), a hanging horse can close a gap you were going for, or barge a couple of others into closing the gap, you might feel the horse beneath you back away from going through a gap, or feel that he has only so much energy left and must be held onto and kept going (rather than aggressively encouraged)…there are many ‘unknowns’
I’m guilty from time to time though learnt a big lesson when McLernon hit Sunnyhill Boy just twice on the run in when beaten a nose in the Grand National. I tweeted that one more hit would surely have seen him home and later read that McLernon had felt the horse go wrong in the last hundred yards and was simply praying he could nurse him home.
Some jocks ride bad races that are obvious and freely open to comment; D Jacob’s rush of blood when riding Might Bite like a dervish into the last at Kempton comes to mind. But these, imo, are rare, and jockeys should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Steeplechasing-The trouble with making truly objective comments on a ride is that – experienced as you might be as a race-reader – 99% of the time you have no idea what has happened in the race
Very true statement Joe.
There was nothing wrong with Verdana Blue’s last run against the clock, he earned a 130 speed figure from me, which was on par with the 133 figure Sharjah managed at Punchestown.
If you compare these two good horses against Buveur D’Air run in the Champion Hurdle where he earned a speed figure of 130, like i mentioned, there was nothing wrong Verdana Blue’s performace.
Here are my current speed figure for the new NH season, all rail movements are adjusted for.
NH2018_2019: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1r1FcjEUEFRXIlojKmtcyGH6NIv9nbBdr
Updated daily…
Mike.
Jockeys ride bad races quite regular and I think we are entitled to have a go at them. It is the sport that we follow and I do get annoyed when people defnd the jockey to the hilt and make excuses for what are sometimes blatantly bad rides.
Footballers get taken to task reularly and you only have to look in the daily papers on a Sunday and Monday and they get marked out of 10 for their performance over the weekend matches. No one makes excuses for them most of the time. They may well have not felt well or similar but when they go out the paying fans/public which we are and have paid good money to watch deserve them to perform to their best and not make excuses for them.
We have this mentality in horse racing where you cannot critisce a bad ride or a jockey.
I don’t theink McGrath, Tinkler or Bass or good jockeys and rides like McGrath gave Verdana Blue only goes to highlight IMO that they are not at the top of the jockey tree.
I know horses are not machines and the sooner we get told when a horse was unwell after a race rather than the tariner could not offer an explanation which seems a cop out the better.
In fairness over the many years I have followed racing we do get more information that ever but we could do with more.
I do beleive however that we are entitled to show a poor ride when there is one without fear of being slagged off or ridiculed. The game is all about opinions.I do beleive however that we are entitled to show a poor ride when there is one without fear of being slagged off or ridiculed. The game is all about opinions.
Anyone is entitled to criticise what they believe is a poor ride, Droffats; I’ve done it myself several times. I wouldn’t say someone should be “ridiculed”, but if slagging off a jockey who I don’t think deserved slagging off, why shouldn’t I give my opinion and criticise your opinion in strong terms? As you say yourself, the game is all about opinions.
There are many, many things that affect how a horse is ridden. The amount of times I’ve seen comments about rides on here that don’t take in to account horses characters/temperaments and luck in running – including…
How each horse is usually ridden. Does each horse normally front run, race prominently, track pace, race mid-div, is held up, dropped out or a combination of two or more of those things?… And how many rivals like to do each of them?
Did the pace suit and (when judging a poor ride just as importantly) what pace the race could be expected to be beforehand?
Is the trip, track, going and type of race likely to suit the horse’s speed or stamina requirements?…
What riding instructions might have been given to the jockey? (Top jockeys are likely to have more licence for changing tactics/using their own innitiative than lesser jockeys).
ie All the above may explain the horse’s positioning.
Did the jockey get a clear run through and/or could he/she have done something else to get a good run (“something else” that isn’t just in hindsight)?
Did the jockey make use of any track bias (best ground and/or pace bias)?
Was any interference suffered due to the jockey trying to make use of that track bias and therefore with other jockeys wanting the same ground ended up getting no room?Did circumstances mean there was less room to find gaps? eg Fewer hurdles in the finishing straight.
If the jockey seemed lenient in the closing stages, was it because of recognising he/she had no chance of catching the winner?
ie Were there any/many extenuating circumstances to what may look at first sight a “blatantly bad ride”.
imo Quite a lot of the above applies to Verdana Blue/McGrath.Value Is EverythingHave to agree, it was a very poor ride.
“What should Jerry have done differently, to enable him to win the race?”
Make a forward move after the 3rd last instead of sitting still like a shop dummy. The claiming jockey that won made his move earlier and got rewarded. Not pocket talk either.Strawbear summons it very well so I shan’t comment anymore on that.
Ginge I agree with what you say and I also take that into account before having a go at a jockey. However on Sunday everything was right for Verdana Blue, ground especially, distance no problem. The week before he made a decisive move early and he won the Elite easily. I beleive that he thought he could pick the leaders up however he found so much trouble and did not amke his move early enough.
Anyway come spring hopefully she will be back and with Nico back or even Sean Bowen losses will be recouped.Just watched the race concentrating on Verdana Blue. In general she hasn’t jumped well, particularly 2 out and at the last, where she forfeited momentum at a crucial part of a relatively slowly run race. As she tried to regain that momentum she took at least one bump in the melee, compounding the momentum loss by losing the balance in her stride. Could not get balanced after turning in (witness her hanging into and bumping Nube Negra). Once she got clear of the bunch, she finally found a rhythm in her stride and that’s when she began running on.
As to McGrath not following the winner after three out, he did forfeit a few lengths there but coming to the last was back within about 2 lengths and, to the eye, travelling much more sweetly than Nietzsche only to fluff the jump and, as mentioned, immediately hit trouble.
It can be argued that another rider could have got her jumping better or perhaps rebalanced sooner after the last, but as to timing, which I think is at the heart of the main complaints on here, there was nothing wrong with the ride imo.
She might not care that much for Cheltenham where she is 0 from 3 and perhaps prefers small fields these days.
Finally, a comment on droffats football analogy: even a football ignoramus like me can see when a player makes a mistake, mishitting a pass or missing a penalty, but footballers don’t rely on a third party to be judged, especially a third party that weighs half a ton, travels at around 35mph and is very often disinclined to do what you want it to do.
Raceform race report close-up: Mid-division, pushed along after 2 out (usual 3 out), making progress when not clear run turning in or over 1f out, disputed 4th entering final furlong, kept on well towards finish (tchd 5/1)
Raceform Analysis: Verdana Blue was penalised for winning the Elite Hurdle at Wincanton eight days earlier and had her ground again. She could have jumped better, but didn’t get the best of passages when the tempo became really serious and it was a rock-solid effort.
Speed is her forte Had they done things differenly and it had been a reasonable pace; punters may well have said “what was that idiot jockey doing” when she got beat?
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