September 14, 2006 at 13:30 #3006
Reading up on Deep Impact’s Arc bid made me realise how few American raiders we have over here in Europe.<br>If a horse can be shipped all the way over from Japan or Australia for a sporting challenge of the best equines in each hemisphere, surely it would be just as feasible for the US raiders to come over here and take us on on our own ground? Do they not want to expose the form of their horses in races like the Arc? Could it be that a horse that could be the best is more financially lucrative than a horse that is exposed as second best maybe?September 14, 2006 at 13:45 #77059davidjohnsonMember
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The biggest factor is likely to be the surface they run on.September 14, 2006 at 14:13 #77060Happy JackParticipant
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The main reason is surely that they won’t be allowed to be doped up to the eyeballs over here.September 14, 2006 at 14:25 #77061
Don’t they use lasix in Japan? Maybe not, but I thought they did.September 14, 2006 at 15:07 #77062AidanMember
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Also their turf horses are pretty average compared to ours. Best dirt and sprinters in the world but on Turf our best turf horses are much superior.September 14, 2006 at 18:12 #77063
The current poor exchange rate is a factor too, as is traditional American insularity.
Many trainers don’t particularly like shipping to a neighbouring state, never mind over a huge expanse of briny.
My other half is American and generally, their lack of interest in the rest of the world continues to astonish. So don’t hold your breath, RD. :biggrin:September 14, 2006 at 18:47 #77064cormack15Keymaster
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Add to that the fact that most Americans, when asked to find Yugoslavia on a map in 1992 thought it was somewhere in Central Africa. If they can’t find a whole country how do we expect them to find their way to Berkshire?September 14, 2006 at 21:46 #77065griff11Participant
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There are a number of reasons, many outlined above.
One of the main factors would be why?
Why take a horse 3000 miles+ East, to compete for what? Only the very top races carry attractive enough prizemoney to take a horse out of the programme of suitable races Stateside, for something that may be detrimental to the rest of its season.
I originally lived in the UK, so I still follow the racing, especially the bigger races, but if that link wasn’t there, why would I find much in the European calendar appealing. If I had a good horse here at Woodbine, I can win big pots of money staying at home winning nice races.
The same point of topic could apply to the UK trainers. On Sunday we have a $1million G1 mile race, Al Valorem and Vanderlin are probable runners, is that all you have? At the end of October we have a nice days racing with the $2million G1 Canadian, the $1million G1 E.P. Taylor Stakes and the $500,000 G2 6f Neartic, what’s the betting that we have no UK runners in the latter. Doesn’t David Barker etc have a sprinter or two that would have a good shot at the Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£141,500 first prize?
Regarding the doping up to the eyeballs, here we can only run on 5ml of Lasix, half that of the US and no bute. I think you’ll find that ‘medication’ is evident in racing your side, it’s just catching them and then, what are they going to do with them when they do?
<br>September 14, 2006 at 21:58 #77066quixallcrossettParticipant
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All this talk about flat horses!!! Do Jay Trump & Ben Nevis count as American raiders?September 15, 2006 at 02:18 #77067
Quote: from quixallcrossett on 10:58 pm on Sep. 14, 2006[br]All this talk about flat horses!!! Do Jay Trump & Ben Nevis count as American raiders?
If you want to go back more than a quarter of a century, yes they do ;)<br>I take the point on prize money, but from a breeding perspective it is very good to have European G1 form in the book. We go over for the Breeders every year, yet they rarely, if ever, come over here. I think of horses like Choisir, Takeaway Target, Cape of Good Hope etc and wonder why they can do it and not the Americans. They go to Dubai for the rich pickings, but not here. It seems quite shortsighted to see the game merely as a means of earning prize money. Does pride and ambition not enter the equasion?September 15, 2006 at 10:14 #77068AdrianParticipant
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Some American connections do consider our races and occasionally (Hard Buck 2nd to Doyen and Mighty Beau 4th in King’s Stand) they try.
However as Griff says the problems are thus:
1. Lack of medication (and by that I mean that medication they are currently using would have to be clean out of their system to run here and I don’t just mean Lasix).
2. Our top class racing is on turf so this limits the pool of horses in America (most of whom are dirt specialists), especially as turf sprinting is virtually non existent due to the layout of their tracks.
3. They only race left handed so right handed tracks such as Longchamp and Ascot are also strange to them.
4. Most importantly their races are so valuable. As Griff says (thanks for the PR by the way!;) the Canadian International (Gr.1) is worth C$ 2 Million.
5. They are used to getting beaten by us on turf on their home ground so they wouldn’t be over keen to take us on here (particularly if the Japanese are also competing here) unless the owners are particularly sporting.
6. Most American racing is geared to the Breeders’ Cup. Therefore, unless the horses aren’t Breeders’ Cup eligible (like Hard Buck) they are most likely to avoid shipping overseas until after this. That is why you do get a few Americans in Japan and Hong Kong.September 15, 2006 at 11:11 #77069
Adrian, let’s not forget Fourstars Allstar, who won the Irish 2000 Gns.;) Good points though.
Griff, I partially agree with you about our horses travelling Stateside. But the likes of Jeremy Noseda and Andrew Balding are honourable exceptions. Even Stan Moore plans to run Satulagi in the Breeders Cup Juvenile, (entries permitting).
Can I ask a question? What do you think about the planned Maktoum expansion in the States?
I spoke to a fellow in Houston, at Sam Houston Raceway who insisted on describing the Dubaian royal family in an uncomplimentary manner, following a Sheikh Hamdan stakes success at Belmont. It would be fair to say he wasn’t all that keen. It reminded me of the Australian attitude a couple of years back to raids on the Melbourne Cup.September 15, 2006 at 18:50 #77070deltamanMember
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Horses for courses….<br>Ascot….Triangle..R/H…Galloping<br>Epsom….Horseshoe…L/H…Stiff<br>Goodwood….Pear….R/H….Stiff<br>Sandown….Oval….R/H….Stiff Nuff Said?September 15, 2006 at 21:18 #77071griff11Participant
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Maxilon, Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â they have put their hand in their pocket at Keeneland with some enthusiasm, so there seems to be some intent. My feeling is that us up here in the quieter North, don’t really have a problem with Dubai coming here with their good horses, but I’m not sure the same can be said for South of the border. We appreciate the likes of Sulamani coming here to compete, regardless of the ownership.
Reading on past US forums, they are very quick to find fault in Godolphin and how they condition horses for the Kentucky Derby for instance, but I think they will have to get used to an Arab presence in their big races. Much of it is narrowmindedness I suspect, rather than basic patriotism. To generalize, the US people don’t have a global attitude.
Personally, if it brings top class horses here for us to watch, then I’m all for it, but if they came and hoovered up every claiming race over $40,000 with their lesser lights, then my attitude would probably change.
Andrew Balding has done quite well over here stealing our dollars and now we have recently changed to Polytrack, I would expect a few more Euros to visit.
No problem with the PR Adrian………because it’s true!!
"Does pride and ambition not enter the equasion?"
I don’t think it does. The prestigious races here probably mean little to you, the same applies to US trainers regarding UK races and their ambition to win them. Pride and ambition doesn’t pay training bills.
<br>September 15, 2006 at 22:23 #77072
Cheers for the response, Griff. :biggrin:
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