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Everyone encourages their offspring to be successful, but as success is relative, what they are really encouraging is the failure of the rest. A dog-eat-dog society based upon winners and losers, as we are finding, cannot last indefinitely. We have to rub along together, in relative equality.
We have to rub along together, in relative equality.
I agree, and my point is the only way to do that in the immediate future is to change our behaviours.
Have you discussed this with your friends in the Conservative Party, marble? I’m sure they would be somewhat surprised the hear this argument. Very surprising that you should agree with TWW, given your previous dismissal of the socialist model – which is effectively what TWW espouses here.
Paddy Power market 10.53am 20/10/08
Which happens first
11-4 Marble joins a left-wing fringe party
10-3 Marble joins a right-wing fringe party
10-11 Marble has a breakdown
‘course I wouldn’t laugh. Chin up, old son. It’s only a sore throat. If you can’t be happy in the metropolis, something’s up. There’s so much to do for free in London. Go to Greenwich, on the DLR. It’s free, (well, there are no ticket barriers – I always feel it’s a slight victory over the capitalist rulemasters when I don’t pay) and then go to the Naval museum and the Royal Observatory. Both are free, and on the way home think what a meaningless sport horse racing is, in the big scheme of things.
Then, tomorrow, do your bollocks in the bookies/on betfair/at Romford dogs.
……
Think of all the celebrity’s that have done nothing of any substance to help society, and have only become famous through effectively selling sh*t……
Just to take a sentence of your post Mart, I think this so called joke perpetrated by Russell Brand/Jonathon Ross on Andrew Sachs, via a radio programme, epitomises what you say here. Picking on an old man like that is simply unforgiveable, he’s 78 and we’ve no idea what state of health he is currently in, and I sincerely hope they are both severely inconvenienced as a result of this pathetic attempt at humour at someone else’s expense.
So many of our great young people getting killed abroad – not for the likes of these 2 I hope.
In my mind most of this isn’t a result of some cultural shift. It is an amplified cultural shift; the amplification being caused by the changes in the ways that we can and are able to communicate (Internet/text/mail/social networking). As a result of this everything is amplified and rises and fades much quicker than it ever did.
The variety of mediums means we are ever more affected by what the marketeers, politicians, broadcasters etc etc want us to hear. Even Paxman is becoming a slave, which makes me sad as despite being a complete nob I admire Paxman’s ability to ignore titles and ask the difficult questions.
The X factor things annoys the sh!t out of me and despite people believing myspace is a good thing these two factors in my opinion are single handedly destroying live music performed by real musicians.. Nobody can make any money out of it, smaller gigs are dying out, young people believe that being a musician is about singing other peoples songs and the minority who do follow real music get branded outcasts or freaks because they don’t fit in with the norm. People will say myspace has broadened the audience and I suppose it has but it has only served to enhance the idea that music is not a product to be paid for… Which grates me, a lot…
I am watching this years X Factor and cannot believe how the audience reacts with the booing whenever a singer gets given a bad word from the judges, its almost like a pantomime and it is sad to see people taking so serious like it is the most important thing in the world.
If you do want to be a singer or musician then get a gig in a pub or club and do it the hard way which is more rewarding i imagine in the end rather than get it given to you on a plate and become all diva like with stupid backstage demands.
Peter Kay got it spot on with his spoof show and he needed something to get him noticed again after the dreadful Max and Paddy series which showed one thing that is that Neil Fitzmaurice and Dave Spikey were the much better writers than Kay and McGuinness and i say that as a Peter Kay fan.
Regarding Russell Brand i simply have no time for him whatsoever and phoning up Andrew Sachs is just such a low thing to do and saying defamatory things about his Grand daughter is just pathetic.
At least Jonathan Ross saw the error of what he did and wrote to him to apologise which is good and decent where as that long haired,goatee wearing ponce just said it was stupid to swear on an answerphone.
If you do want to be a singer or musician then get a gig in a pub or club and do it the hard way which is more rewarding i imagine in the end rather than get it given to you on a plate and become all diva like with stupid backstage demands.
Neil, the issue is that playing pub gigs etc you’ll get paid around £100-200 when your just starting out and can actually draw a crowd locally. This is of course if you get paid at all. Once you actually build a fan base you’ve then got to blag yourself a small tour or some support slots, which is difficult enough. Then if you’re lucky (or unlucky) enough to actually get a record deal the record company will advance you a sum to make a record. That advance has to be paid back in full. It’s a loan basically (Although the terms may differ).
After all this you have to hope you can sell in excess of say 50,000 units and that may just about keep you afloat. It’s a bloody hard game that you have to give up everything for if you really want it.
So if your 18 and have the choice, you’re probably gonna go for the instant fame and potential of millions. Personally I don’t like it but can understa nd why people would want to go on the show. What I can’t understand is why people watch it and why they buy the music.
I have to admit though, I do love the initial auditions for the comedy value.
Regarding Russell Brand i simply have no time for him whatsoever and phoning up Andrew Sachs is just such a low thing to do and saying defamatory things about his Grand daughter is just pathetic.
At least Jonathan Ross saw the error of what he did and wrote to him to apologise which is good and decent where as that long haired,goatee wearing ponce just said it was stupid to swear on an answerphone.
Yeah, but do you think either the phone calls or the letter of apology elicited any response from Andrew Sachs other than….
"Que?"
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Russel Brand is a complete waste of space, how anyone decided a total git like that should be on the telly wants a boot in the nuts.
Quote Neil, the issue is that playing pub gigs etc you’ll get paid around £100-200 when your just starting out and can actually draw a crowd locally. This is of course if you get paid at all.
In Edinburgh, and I’m sure it’s not alone, you often have to pay to play (usually in the form of guaranteeing to the venue that you’ll take a certain number of tickets).
Quote Neil, the issue is that playing pub gigs etc you’ll get paid around £100-200 when your just starting out and can actually draw a crowd locally. This is of course if you get paid at all.
In Edinburgh, and I’m sure it’s not alone, you often have to pay to play (usually in the form of guaranteeing to the venue that you’ll take a certain number of tickets).
This is true in some places Corm, My mate is in a band based in bristol and they get paid (a pittance generally, 10 or 20 gigs might get you an hour in the recording studio) in some places. But at certain venues, they have to sell so many tickets to get to play. I have been to battle of the band competitions, where rather than having judges, you have to bring as many people along to vote for you as possible, or you dont go through, which I remember once saw an oasis tribute act get voted through to play at the London Astoria ahead of bands that actually wrote their own stuff and were definitely better.
Aragorn is in a band I think and may be able to confirm this.
In Edinburgh, and I’m sure it’s not alone, you often have to pay to play (usually in the form of guaranteeing to the venue that you’ll take a certain number of tickets).
Mrs Column’s band don’t have to pay for gigs in London, but they do have to guarantee a certain number of people attend to see them to get invited back to the same venue again. Touch wood, they’ve managed this pretty much everywhere so far. Just about, sometimes!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
In Edinburgh, and I’m sure it’s not alone, you often have to pay to play (usually in the form of guaranteeing to the venue that you’ll take a certain number of tickets).
Mrs Column’s band don’t have to pay for gigs in London, but they do have to guarantee a certain number of people attend to see them to get invited back to the same venue again. Touch wood, they’ve managed this pretty much everywhere so far. Just about, sometimes!
gc
Sound in Leicester Square, if you bring 50 people through the door they will give you £50, if you don’t they will charge you £50.. I told them where to go… It’s all about how many people you bring to gigs with you..
I am watching this years X Factor and cannot believe how the audience reacts with the booing whenever a singer gets given a bad word from the judges, its almost like a pantomime and it is sad to see people taking so serious like it is the most important thing in the world.
Neil, it is a pantomime.
It has no creative or artistic merit in and of itself – it merely lives and dies by the strength of the audience participation, whether it be those in the studio, those watching it on television, or those incredulous enough to buy the vacuous shlock they put in record stores.
If you are watching it, I’m afraid you are part of the problem.
I’ve never watched any of these programmes but from what I’ve heard they should be staged at the Coliseum….ritual humiliation not my cup of tea.
Just to take a sentence of your post Mart, I think this so called joke perpetrated by Russell Brand/Jonathon Ross on Andrew Sachs, via a radio programme, epitomises what you say here. Picking on an old man like that is simply unforgiveable, he’s 78 and we’ve no idea what state of health he is currently in, and I sincerely hope they are both severely inconvenienced as a result of this pathetic attempt at humour at someone else’s expense.
At the risk of being thought to be defending the indefensible (which I’m not – the answerphone message was injudicious and dim), permit me to share a few thoughts that have come to mind as this episode has rumbled on.
There were three discernible errors of judgment where the conceiving and broadcasting of the programme was concerned.
One was certainly Brand’s apparent belief that Georgina Baillie would not – by virtue of her controversial vocation and outlook on life – be offended by anything he blurted into the family answerphone, however fruity.
One was certainly Jonathan Ross playing along with the prank, which on balance isn’t necessarily behaviour becoming of a 48 year-old.
However, the biggest was arguably that of the editorial staff of Radio 2 to let the show go out as unfettered as they did, especially as – unlike most of the pair’s radio shows – this was recorded two days in advance rather than broadcast live.
The issue, then, is primarily one of systemic editorial failures being exposed, and two of the BBC’s A-list celebrities just happening to be involved. Ross and Brand’s reputations precede them to a large extent, so for their editor on the day of the show, and / or the editor entrusted with vetting and snipping the material before broadcast, to accord what could always have had the potential to be inflammatory material such a lightness of touch is hard to excuse.
Was it actually the bringing to the public’s attention of such an organisational failure that inspired the Mail to run with the story in the first place, though, or had their well of more usual this-country’s-going-to-the-dogs stories temporarily run dry?
It certainly seemed to take long enough for this paper, or any other, to decide it was outraged by the whole incident – the story first ran anywhere last weekend, getting on for seven days after the show was broadcast and 10 after it was recorded.
As such, it is reasonable to assume that few of the now-1,500 letters of complaint to the BBC also predate the intervention by the newspaper. Only the writers of those letters will be able to tell you whether their sensibilities have actually been that offended, or whether the chance for a vicarious moan at the generous salaries paid to both Ross and Brand is what’s really underpinned their actions.
As for the paper itself, isn’t there a certain inconsistency about the Mail and its ilk rushing to defend the virtues of Georgina Baillie? Miss Baillie’s stage-show as “Voluptua”, one member of goth / Burlesque / cheerleader massacre / voodoo sacrifice / vampire brutality troupe Satanic Sluts is the sort of thing that, in isolation, this newspaper’s editorial line would broadly speaking condemn as immoral and ungodly. The moral compass appears to have been shifted, however temporarily, in this instance to make capital against two conspicuous, easy media targets.
…And speaking of shifting morals; who in God’s name thought it a good idea to let the execrable Kelvin Mackenzie give his penneth on the news last night, decrying the sheer baseness of messrs Ross and Brand’s actions?
His “Gotcha!!” headline at the sinking of the Belgrano during the Falklands Conflict remains the most egregious piece of schadenfreude dreamed up by Fleet Street in my lifetime, and for me utterly precludes any right he has to take the sanctimonious high ground on this or any other matter.
In short, whilst the actuality of Ross and Brand’s prank is nothing either man should regard with any degree of pride whatsoever, this is an episode in which rather more people than just these two have acted injudiciously and inappropriately.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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