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Evening meetings imminent with a double header from Taunton and Cheltenham (new fixture) to kick the season off
Indeedy – I’ve already got leave booked to do the May evening meetings at Cheltenham and Stratford (Friday of Horse & Hound meeting). If I’m not doing radio on the Saturday of the Horse & Hound meeting too, I’ll either go there or back up to God’s own Cartmel for the Veterans’ National in the time-honoured fashion.
Should be a whole summer full of evening jumps racing, if I get my dates right.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
getting back to the point I was trying to make before my laptop battery died.
Flat racing is OK but is not as enjoyable or, in most cases as exciting, as jump racing.
take two seven race meetings this afternoon.
Lingfield 7 races – total racing action 11 minutes 29 seconds
Chepstow 7 races – total racing action 32 minutes 40 seconds
I find it very hard to get enthused by a race that is over in under a minute – where the whole outcome of a race can be decided by how well, or not, a horse comes out of the stalls.
Or a horses chanced are determined by the lottery of the draw – 5f sprints at Chester or Beverley for example.
Flat racing is OK but NH is far better – but I fully accept others hold the diametrically opposite view.
Meanwhile I still have the Scottish National, Punchestown and Sandown to look forward to – although I do wish the race planners wouldn’t schedule the latter two at the same time – it is a difficult choice – especially when riding intentions are not known.
Jumps over….. Nooooo!
I’ve nothing against flat racing I just think jumps is much better. Bye for now Kauto, Denman, Katchit, Master Minded, VPU, Tidal Bay, Inglis Drever et al…. hope you all have a nice rest and are well for next season!
There have been a few anti-flat views on this thread, which I find to be largely complete rubbish.
Immature animals trying to keep in a straight line for five furlongs? Horses improving at different rates, due to said immaturity, rendering the formbook almost obsolete?
The 5f juvenile races are only a small part of the flat season, and are quite interesting, from a view point of watching how the speedier horses of yester year are getting on at stud. I fail to see how this element of flat racing is any different to the juvenile novice element of jumps racing, the style of picking bing very similar and with the class of some of those races being absolutely dire.
Crooked jockeys and even more crooked trainers?
Yeah, its all about crooked jockeys and trainers. I dont suppose the aspect of large prize pots and stud values actually make any impact on all of these croooked people. If only the horses had the aspect of jumping a fence in a race for lower value prizes and no potential for stud fees, that would then surely make the jockeys and trainers cease being crooked, like the jumps season, which is 100% uncrooked.
Big races dominated by two groups of billionaire owners?
I can only assume you are talking about coolmore and godolphin, who didnt win The 1,000 guineas, the 2,000 guineas, the oaks, the derby or the the leger. Hold on a minute, they didnt win any of the classics last season, and the previous season they only won 2 of the classics. It is a fact that the Ballydoyle and godolphin have huge stables but the impact of coolmores breeding means that there are potentially smart horses in smaller stables right across the flat season. Motivator, Sixties Icon, Shamardal, Teofilo, Aragorn, Red Rocks etc, etc, etc. Couldn’t begin to count the amount of times I have got a good price on a well bred horse from a small stable against a quirkily bred odds-on-shot from the godolphin stable, in the smaller races. Not only that but could it not be said that jumps racing is dominated by the nicholls yard.
The best horses packed off to stud at the end of the season
What you appear to fail to realise is that almost all of the horses you will bet on over the jumps are bred from horses who were packed off to stud once proving their worth on the track. Why keep the BEST horses in training and risk running them into the ground, just for punters who want to keep seeing them win races at odds on for the rest of their lives, when they can make more money from sending that horse to do what it is supposed to do.
Flat racing is OK but is not as enjoyable or, in most cases as exciting, as jump racing.
take two seven race meetings this afternoon.
Lingfield 7 races – total racing action 11 minutes 29 seconds
Chepstow 7 races – total racing action 32 minutes 40 seconds
I find it very hard to get enthused by a race that is over in under a minute – where the whole outcome of a race can be decided by how well, or not, a horse comes out of the stalls.
I generally find your post to be a lot less anti-flat but just a few points which I’d pick up on.
If you bare in mind that for about 75% of the length of time watching the avergae jumps race you are watching horses do little more than canter, and the race only gets competitive (exciting) from about the second or third fence out, this statistic means absolutely nothing. Nevertheless there is almost always excitement from start to finish in a flat race, is your horse too close to the fast pace, too far off a slow pace, too far wide, too covered etc, but usually you cant tell if your horse is beat usually until the last furlong or so of the race.
The outcome of a race can be influenced early on by a horse failing to leave the stalls, and many will say that this is down to the preparation. But likewise on the jumps, a far greater percentage of the average jumps field aren’t even sufficiently prepped to take place in the race and are often enough beaten by a "distance", is this any different? When a horse is beaten 50+ lengths and returns uninjured, in the absence of any outstanding performance by the winner, or if he falls at the first fence, it could be argued that that horse shouldnt have even run, because he had no realistic chance of seriously competing in that race, but these horses/runs are commonplace, and there is nothing perceivably "crooked" about it.
There are different aspects of both disciplines of racing which may or may not appeal to all, but i generally find that most of the teletext-chat-esque anti-flat views are mainly held by people who have never taken the time to learn how to to pick on the flat and so find it a minefield and just come out with rubbish like "its crooked" "the horses arent as good because they dont jump fences", "you never get decent e/ws like you do on the jumps", "there aren’t enough big races, theres one everyday on the jumps" etc.etc,etc..
I am mainly a flat racing person, and the past few jumps seasons are the first where I have really got into jumps, I used to go into betting hibernation over the jumps season as I found the slow pace, and seeming lower class of it very boring, going from watching the arc, the champ stakes and the breeders cup meetings to suddenly watching horses trundling round exeter, uttoxeter, chepstow etc was a very depressing spectacle. I would go as far as to say I was ignorant, but now I would actually go as far as to say that I like the jumps, but am still about 60/40 in favour of the flat. I actually find 5f juvenile races that are over in under a minute to be pretty exciting.
Let it slide Bulwark. Some people just need to take their head of their glutius maximus.
Big races dominated by two groups of billionaire owners?
After a week where one trainer revelled in £3m of winnings in a NH season. In a season where one NH trainer – the same – has the three top rated chasers. Where the concentration of prize money won resembles a cartel with the significant prize money carved up by the same greedy outfits each year. Where the Northern jump scene resembles the North of the seventies on the Flat, with Cecil and Stoute sending regally bred maidens to Ripon to win at threes on.
If it wasn’t for the Irish, all the Cheltenham races would be won by that same six or seven oligarchic stables, headed by one whose present monopoly is not good for the sport in the slightest.
RUK commented on all this earlier, so it’s not just me.
Then there is the flat: Speciosa – owned by a bunch of Rutland parsnip farmers. Cockney Rebel. Sir Percy. Lucarno. Light Shift: (Classic winners all).
Maids Causeway. Red Clubs. Sakhees Secret. . (Non Coolmore/Godolphin Group 1 winners). Then there’s the brave Aussie sprinters. Mike De Kock. The Irish genii Jim Bolger and Dermot Weld. Fabre and the French. The emerging Germans and the Italians.
This brainstorm of key horses and players from the last two years flat action took me all of a minute. Your assertion, Yqem21 has very little validity. Bring on the comparatively Communist flat season.
Let it slide Bulwark. Some people just need to take their head of their glutius maximus.
Its already slid mate…
Good post Max.
Feel a cloud descending over me after Aintree; can’t wait to see my heroes re appear after their summer hols…think said Rutland Parsnip Farmers far richer than I’ll ever be….
Feel a cloud descending over me after Aintree….
Thats the jumping weather for you, its usually quite pleasant at royal ascot….
Just kidding moehat..
Cheers, Bullers. As was yours.
We more or less wrote it at the same time lol. And mostly different horses!Moe, I love my jump racing too. But it needs some fresh blood to challenge the Dicheat monopoly. I’d love to see Venetia return to the Teeton Mill and Lady Rebecca days – or the return of the Easterbys to the the high ranks.
Still got Perth & Ayr to come- both of which I look forward to greatly- and after that I tentatively move on to the Guineas before spending 6 months going throught the motions on the flat, all the while wishing that I was somewhere else.
That being said, I’m on New Approach for the Guineas at 10s but I’m really worried that 1m is going to prove a bit sharp of his best. As soon as the Bet365 at Sandown is finished and the jumps are officially dormant, I shall muse over whether to lay it off for a freebie.
Slightly amazed by the strength of feeling on two sides here.
I enjoy both codes, although as my username suggests I have always enjoyed the winter game more.
The longevity over the jumps and the Cheltenham Festival wins me over every time. The prospect of last seasons novices making the step up. The big handicaps.
On the flat there is the sheer excitement and potential of the 2 and 3 year olds. The quality of the G1’s. Trying to work out the big handicaps.
The drawbacks are the draw problems, luck in running – particularly over shorter trips, dodgy watered ground etc.
As each season comes to an end I just anticipate the approaching one of the other code.
I do appreciate that people such as Jeremy with the Summer Jumps and Smithy with the AW do enjoy those, but they are the areas that I have to forego to enjoy the overall spectacle of racing that pleases me so.
It always cracks me up when i hear people say the flat is ruled by two billionaires that buy all the glory!
Are they getting flat/NH mixed up?
There’s simply no argument as to where the money counts most in terms of glory
There are different aspects of both disciplines of racing which may or may not appeal to all, but i generally find that most of the teletext-chat-esque anti-flat views are mainly held by people who have never taken the time to learn how to to pick on the flat and so find it a minefield
Some very good points Bulwark.
Being dispasionate regarding codes for the moment, there is good and bad racing in all three codes – yes I will even concede it is even possible to have a good AW race – although they are harder to find
I suppose another reason for my bias is a selfish one in that I find it easier to "read" a jump race than a fast paced sprint – probably because my brain is not as fast as it used to be
Oddly enough even though my preference is for jump racing, I actually do have a better strike rate with my flat betting – no doubt because the form does tend hold out better.
Also, for some stupid reason, which I have never been able to fathom out, I am much better at "paddock picking" flat runners than I am jump runners.
Anyway whatever our individual preferences we should count our blessings that we do have such a wide variety of racing in this country, so there is something for everyone. I think I would be near suicidal if I lived, for example, in the US where 98% of racing is run on a dirt oval.
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