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People who are interested in racing, but don’t bet on it are just WEIRD. It’s like going to a football match and cheering on The Draw or the referee.
Why ?
When I go racing lately, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of ”new” racegoers who don’t have a clue what they’re doing when it comes to betting.
I rather like this.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Is the problem attracting new punters or new racegoers?
Thats a valid question insomniac,in my experience the majority of ‘Punters’ are the stay at home sort who frequent their local 2 or 3 Bookmakers in their locality,all within walking distance of each other,they will then make the same small talk they do everyday,mostly cynical!’Racegoers’ are a different breed there’s no doubt that Racing is a cultural sport and depending on where you live in the country dictates the type of person that the local Racecourse attracts.I have been to the majority of courses in my time and being a lover of the sport like I am Golf have always maintained you dont get a bad course.The ‘snottiest’ course in the Country is not Ascot like some would think but Newbury,a jumps meeting at Newbury attracts serious money folk who are all Tweed and Barbour and are proper knowledgable breeding and selling folk,the girls are all supported by Daddys who have let them out with his Credit card,the guys are all wannabe ‘Magniers’.Pontefract on the other hand is more ‘Magners’ than ‘Magniers’,the girls dress like they’ve been to ‘Top Shop’ and forgot to buy the bottom half of their oufit,their Fathers are all ex-Miners who are as down to earth as their Southern counterparts are highflyers.Travel further North to Kelso and you’ll stand out like a Black Pudding at a Eunochs convention,this is the Cliqueist course in the country where the Borders folk are regulars and dont like
strangers
.More than one course in this country is quite happy not to attract new custom as they are so set in their ways as those are that frequent such places that they survive quite happily on ‘Members’ only.Without harping on about it,Racing
is a very cultural Sport and the UK is a very mixed cultural country not just ethnics but the class system plays a prevalent role in its infrastructure as the Pattern of races and the level of
quality is shared amongst the hierachy of the sport and always has been.To summarise ‘Racegoers’ are bred/born/educated/encouraged to go Racing through generations before them,they are the Cream on the top of the soup,Punters on the other hand are the Sh*t that sinks to the bottom but ocassionally the odd floater does appear
and is also spotted usually in groups on their local racetracks and thats how its always been!The Class divide in life but meet up at the races and even there the division of Members/Tatts/Family enclosures still try to seperate the Money folk with the working class and that doesn’t encourage new faces who feel they dont fit!
Such is life!
The "Working Class" always want to imagine a them and us. Where as if you take no notice of any supposed class system and just talk to people – you’d realise everyone is the same. I have racing pals who are underwriters, bankers, businessmen, farmers, truck drivers, shop keepers, market stall holders and gophers, it does not matter who they are or what they do, we all love our racing. Anyone who thinks they can judge someone from what they wear is a fool, even "working class" wear barbours and Tweed these days.
Value Is EverythingGood Thread , some valid points
Going racing is not much of an option for me nowadays ..the cost incl petrol for my nearest track ie Newmarket , is about 35 quid , I dont get to have a cuppa or pay exhorbitant amounts at the stalls on offer ,Kempton is just impossible with Traffic , ditto Ascot …Newbury would be a 50/ 60 quid day out ….its not worth it !!!
so Ruk and the local betting shop is now the scene , but I am a gnarled racing supporter , however how do we attract the new blood to bet on the horses ..thereby adding to a silly levy system ??
I dont know , most youngsters I talk to prefer poker , for them racing is bent ,,,frankly with Bittar sitting on the doping report and not releasing it warts and all , he is reinforcing their view
The Kids are not stupid , they see this as well …so they continue to play poker and bet on Chelsea etc , meanwhile racing sinks further into the mire
imo
Ricky
On the subject of cost of going racing. If any member lives in the areas/roads from/to Andover to Newbury or Andover to Salisbury or Southampton to Goodwood – and ever fancies a day at the races, I can oblige with a lift.
Promise not to mention the Table Of Odds And Chances.
Value Is EverythingThe "Working Class" always want to imagine a them and us. Where as if you take no notice of any supposed class system and just talk to people – you’d realise everyone is the same.
You are deluding yourself there Ginge if you think I’m imagining there’s a Class system in this country.This country stinks of Upperclass superiority,the Working class have always been frowned upon by those with the ability to talk with a Plum in their mouth and yet like you say they are still human.Personally I dont care whether you are Teddy Grimthorpe or Ted the Bus Driver I’ll tell it as it is and treat them all the same,however,in Racing Circles give me the Dandy Nicholls rather than the Sir Michael Stoutes anyday,one couldn’t bowl a googly the other will kick you in them but both are brilliant at their trade.Dandy will greet you with his England shirt on,Sir Michael wouldn’t let you in,thats what effect a Class system has on individuals and its rife in racing sadly.Look at how those muppets called Stewards talk to the Jockeys during an enquiry,straight down their huge noses,noses that love to quaff a glass of red wine in between races and yet a Jockeys banned for a glass or 2 too much the night before………Hypocrites the lot of em! Why do the high and mighty get to park on the course when Joe Public get shoved in a field?.Class system again,Racing wreaks of it.It used to P*ss me right off that certain celebrity racing folk could access anywhere they liked on a racecourse whilst we get sheparded around like lambs to a slaughter,I decided to take my camera several years ago and literally go where the **** I wanted,I still do and nobody questions me.Its either because I’ve got a Big lens or plenty front but no toffee nosed Pr*ck tells me,’Sorry sir you cant enter here’!
I think there are plenty of good initiatives by the courses to encourage racegoers but I agree we need to hook them as regulars and participants (ie owners or punters).
One thing I noticed at Arlington is that, because they run long seasons – racing 4 days a week from May to September – they do deals to get various groups in (quite often silver surfers rather than just the youngsters we try to attract).
However, in a tote monopoly situation, they are desperate to get them gambling when they come – rather than just drinking and eating which are not high profit items on US courses.
Many have never bet before so to encourage them to get started they include a couple 2 dollar betting vouchers with each race card. This means that the racegoers tend to buy a racecard and then bet "because it’s free" and then, hopefully, they are hooked and keep going up to the tills when they realise how easy it all is.
Not sure of the legal complexities here but wonder if our Tote could try this out.
I decided to take my camera several years ago and literally go where the **** I wanted,I still do and nobody questions me.Its either because I’ve got a Big lens or plenty front but no toffee nosed Pr*ck tells me,’Sorry sir you cant enter here’!
No Gord,
You think you are better than the rest of us, a special case. That’s why you take your camera and go anywhere we mere mortals do not. What if every racegoer took their camera to anywhere on the racecourse? It’d be chaos and security would be a big worry. Good job some of us keep to the rules.You’re only allowed in to those places because they think you are an official photographer. F-all to do with "class"!
Those hard working, working class photographers pay for the privilege.You were so proud of yourself telling me you’d stood on a table to get a better picture of Frankel on Lockinge day. Knowing you weren’t allowed…
I asked one of the Directors at Newbury why they don’t put more picnic benches in front of the members stand? Her answer was "because if we do some use them to get a better view, obscuring other racegoers".
Be careful of going to places you shouldn’t on a racecourse Gord. If a horse is found to have been "got at" and they find pictures of this shaven haired yob masquerading as a photographer… They might put two and two together and make three.
Value Is EverythingI think more effort should go to selling the sport as a sport. Primarily that should be aimed at marketing the cream. How do we do that??
SHL
The "Working Class" always want to imagine a them and us. Where as if you take no notice of any supposed class system and just talk to people – you’d realise everyone is the same.
You are deluding yourself there Ginge if you think I’m imagining there’s a Class system in this country.This country stinks of Upperclass superiority,the Working class have always been frowned upon by those with the ability to talk with a Plum in their mouth and yet like you say they are still human.Personally I dont care whether you are Teddy Grimthorpe or Ted the Bus Driver I’ll tell it as it is and treat them all the same,however,in Racing Circles give me the Dandy Nicholls rather than the Sir Michael Stoutes anyday,one couldn’t bowl a googly the other will kick you in them but both are brilliant at their trade.Dandy will greet you with his England shirt on,Sir Michael wouldn’t let you in,thats what effect a Class system has on individuals and its rife in racing sadly.Look at how those muppets called Stewards talk to the Jockeys during an enquiry,straight down their huge noses,noses that love to quaff a glass of red wine in between races and yet a Jockeys banned for a glass or 2 too much the night before………Hypocrites the lot of em! Why do the high and mighty get to park on the course when Joe Public get shoved in a field?.Class system again,Racing wreaks of it.It used to P*ss me right off that certain celebrity racing folk could access anywhere they liked on a racecourse whilst we get sheparded around like lambs to a slaughter,I decided to take my camera several years ago and literally go where the **** I wanted,I still do and nobody questions me.Its either because I’ve got a Big lens or plenty front but no toffee nosed Pr*ck tells me,’Sorry sir you cant enter here’!
You might be further annoyed that the original reason why racing was held on weekday afternoons was so that the upper classes could avoid mixing with the working classes, who were presumed all to be at work at those times. Cricket was the much the same, with separate entrances and changing rooms for Gentlemen and Players.
The phrase ”competing against each other” was used several posts ago. If only. I finished betting on the flat two seasons ago when I realised how intricate and convoluted racing strategies had become in order for connections to finally realise a profit. It has become necessary to establish among followers and handicappers that a horse is utterly useless and unworthy of even a small investment. Then and only then will an animal be asked to produce it’s best.
The phrase ”disguised ability” is now common currency among the dwindling pocket of form students and the real sport is now in trying to identify those runners who may retain ability having let the cat out of the bag at some point by failing narrowly at an attractive price.
There are too many shock results on a daily basis with apparent no hopers romping home like champions and it’s this that sticks in the craw of anyone foolish enough to venture a tenner or so on a horse. To those who wish for the advancement of racing we must sort out the non-triers with more surveillance and greater diligence with miscreants driven out of the sport. Even the most stubborn of mug punters have deserted racing leaving the bookmakers relying on hooded youths on the FOBTs to maintain a presence on the High St.
Of course the irony is that even when attempts are made to immerse novices into the world of racing via events like The Shergar Cup, a thread entitled "Please Make This Year’s Shergar Cup The Last" appears on these boards!
Mike
I don’t follow the irony element and where it fits into the thread I started Mike.
You said yourself:-
However, there’s a world of difference between attracting new racegoers and creating new punters. I strongly believe racing punters are born not made, and sadly, all the marketing in the world will not add to their numbers.
That is part of my gripe with The Shergar Cup, it may fill the Racecourse, which fills the coffers in turn but the format of six x ten runner handicaps and a team competition does little to show a newcomer much about the nuances of Horse Racing. Lost in all the posts so far was my suggestion of changing the event to something more varied and perhaps make it a celebration of one of the greatest trainers of our time, Sir Henry Cecil. Shergar is long gone, a horse of a runaway Derby win and a mysterious piece of folklore regarding his kidnapping and this competition does nothing to serve as a testament to him anyway as far as I am concerned. Some believe my criticism of the event is harsh and so be it. Let us celebrate putting bums on seats and not dabble with such irrational ideas as "improving" a fixture to make it appeal to a wider audience and perhaps teach newcomers a little more about racing’s variety.
No harm in talking about it and getting different opinions and I am pleased with the number of people who took the time to respond. Thanks
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I don’t follow the irony element and where it fits into the thread I started Mike.
You said yourself:-
However, there’s a world of difference between attracting new racegoers and creating new punters. I strongly believe racing punters are born not made, and sadly, all the marketing in the world will not add to their numbers.
Yes, that does seem contradictory. But I was railing against the idea that even trying something different at one meeting for one day is still regarded by some as far too much!
I was also thinking that at least The Shergar Cup attempts to make horse racing the main focus of the day – although I appreciate other ‘attractions’ come with it. I still think that is unlikely to convert non-punting attendees into punters in any number, but it may propel keener youngsters into areas such as ownership or even a career in racing later in life.
Mike
People who are interested in racing, but don’t bet on it are just WEIRD. It’s like going to a football match and cheering on The Draw or the referee.
I once went to a game at Stevenage when they were a non league side and three guys behind me had come to see the referee.They applauded his correct decisions even.Weird.
I agree with Ginger (!). But the sport and the sport’s media has steadily become more sterile, in the sense of characters vanishing and smooth and unchallenging views and personalities taking over. Most people here appeared to dislike McCririck but he was a good character for the sport and a damn good racing journalist. The dreary, PC-minded bores who run the media now just couldn’t bear anyone talking out of turn. So you end up with people who are all basically the same with the same assumptions.
There is never enough about the spice of racing: punting. You hear only about the massive bets, which only adds to the public perception that it’s a mug’s game.
The intricacies of form study can never be sold to a public with short attention spans and now well used to instant gratification.
The Turf’s greatest strength, contrary to the Racing Post and the BHA, is the fact that it hasn’t changed ie become like other sports. No-one in their right minds wants to see it become like football, now a moronic force in the country.
The Racing Post over the years has knocked dressed codes and social stratifications and so on, but this is part of the novelty.Racing’s *difference* is its selling point. It needs to retain character and characters, not have them smoothed over.
There are too many shock results on a daily basis with apparent no hopers romping home like champions and it’s this that sticks in the craw of anyone foolish enough to venture a tenner or so on a horse.
Still pushing this theory I see Woolfie.
a) The "outsiders" actually win the percentage of races their price entitles them to. Not "too many" at all.
Just as short and medium priced horses win the amount they are entitled to.b) If you are right, if "too many shock results happen on a daily basis"… we could just back outsiders blindly and make a profit. We can’t, it just would not work.
c) Punters just need to find over-priced horses of any odds, short, medium or outsiders.
d) If you’d learn the odds as percentages and understand the "mathematics of betting" Woolfie – you’d realise the folly of your statement. Suspect like a lot of punters, you won’t bother. Preferring to be either lazy or wanting to believe your losses are someone else’s fault.
e) Of course there is the odd bit of skulduggery, but nowhere near the amount you suggest Woolfie. If skulduggery were widespread it would not be possible for knowledgeable punters to show a profit by studying form… But they/we do.
Value Is Everything
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