Was Silver Buck amongst the 10 best chasers ever?
- #1Yes
- #2No
- This topic has 27 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 11 months ago by
.
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You’re welcome!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"@ Gladiateur
As you say all opinions with mine based on what I witnessed.Born at the same time,I’m too young to remember Flying Bolt but, from what I’ve read over the years, can’t disagree with your assertion on that particular horse.
Can’t have it at all that Silver Buck was superior to the Lad; Dickinson himself, in interviews I’ve read, always maintained that same opinion.At the time of peak Wayward Lad the winner of the King George was often considered the best chaser in training and his record in that race was second to none.
Where the Lad beats CH for me is his consistency and longevity and, for me, it’s only that darn hill that stops the Lad winning a deserved Gold Cup. Like Ian I had my 12/1 win only slip ready to take to my local bookies till Dawn Run snatched away considerable readies.
And although it was 36 years ago now I’m still not over it!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Where the Lad beats CH for me is his consistency and longevity…”
Agreed that Wayward Lad had a longer and more distinguished career than Carvill’s Hill but on their best form then the latter was the better horse, in my opinion.
They were very different in that Wayward was a “speed” three miler, while Carvill’s was a staying one; over the Gold Cup course and distance, on “normal” jumping ground, I’d have thought Carvill’s would outstay the Lad and on soft or heavy ground it wouldn’t even be close. There is always the caveat that Carvill’s would have to negotiate all the fences safely, of course, but without Golden Freeze to disrupt his rhythm I would think he’d make all quite comfortably in a Gold Cup match race; same applies against Silver Buck.
At Kempton, though, I’d expect either of the Dickinson pair to have too much pace for him.
“over the Gold Cup course and distance”
Did Carvills Hill ever win round Cheltenham?
Seemed best at Chepstow from memory.
Two very different horses as you say.
Wayward Lad definitely the more consistent.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"He only ran there twice: 1989 Gold Cup, when he fell at the seventh (he would have walked the race that year- on bottomless ground he was pretty much unbeatable) and the notorious 1992 renewal.
Hard to believe that was thirty years ago…
On the subject of consistency, pretty hard to beat these form figures:
11/12111/1F11F11/2112/1F/1115/
And, off the top of my head, those include at least four drubbings of high-class opposition under top weight in valuable handicaps.
Wayward Lad’s career form figures, for comparison:
11121211/21211U01/1113111/13213/11121P/1123201/1U32122/3325451/
And, finally, those of Silver Buck:
1/01111440/1111B13/1111111/1112113/1F111/111314/11211561/
It’s his thread, after all!
I’m struggling with the idea a horse who failed to complete either time he went to the place would have “walked” anything at Prestbury Park tbh.
Wayward Lad didn’t much like the place either, but he was at least placed in a couple of Cheltenham Gold Cups.
Carvills Hill the better at peak form, though, no argument there.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I wonder what Messrs Henderson, Mullins et al would make of the number of races these absolute top-notchers of yesteryear had?
Silver Buck ran eight times in his final season, when he was eleven rising twelve!
At the time surely we all considered it the norm and that it would always be like that.
Like night following day.
I think this is why so many of us just roll our eyes in the post-Best Mate era.
Today’s Jumping Grade 1 champion has about as many races a season as a 1970s/1980s Robert Sangster-owned/Vincent O’Brien-trained Derby prospect.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I`ve no wish to denigrate Silver Buck but to contend that he was superior to Burrough Hill Lad because he beat him in 1982 is getting a long way out of context. BHL was a formative, erratic chaser at that point with about two seasons improvement to come. Very significant improvement it was too.
While it was a fine weight-carrying effort at Market Rasen, I think Burrough Hill Lad defying top weight in a HENNESSY might just has the edge somehow!
So I agree with The Pilgarlic!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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