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Zebras FFS?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysJust a couple of observations.
From Katharine Birbalsingh in theDaily Mail
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"Poverty has nothing to do with these riots. If poverty caused such explosive unrest, Calcutta would be permanently in flames."And whilst those politicians of all major parties who abused the expenses system and the "greedy bankers" deserve our contempt, take a quick butcher’s at this about Dave Prentis the UNISON leader (from the Guido Fawkes Order-Order blog):-
Five days ago Prentis said:
“The Government would be better advised to look at plugging tax loopholes for the rich and tackling tax evasion that costs us billions, rather than giving top earners a cash break.”
But Guido asks, referring to a 31% increase in his (Prentis’s) annual Unison Pension contribution which Prentis argues was because of a "salary sacrifice" by himself:-
"…why should someone who is a member of a very generous union final salary scheme choose to sacrifice yet more money to pay into the scheme?Well a good place to start in the hunt for an answer is Unison’s own Annual Report. Specifically page 16. You won’t be surprised to see that comrade Prentis is one of those unfortunate fat-cats who earn between £100,000 and £112,950. Someone on that money is subject to Gordon’s personal allowance tapering. This means his marginal rate of tax was 60%.
Rather than pay this rate of tax though, Prentis has engaged in some personal tax avoidance and paid the money into his pension, ensuring the state couldn’t get its hands on it. By doing so he has effectively got a 60% tax relief on those payments. Because the Unison financial year doesn’t match the fiscal year, its not possible to say exactly what Mr Prentis’s pay in 2010/2011 was, but Guido understands that it was not more than £99,999…Only a fool would go out of his way to pay more tax and many up and down the country use this same technique to minimise their bill.
So, there’s rank hypocrisy on the Left that hardly sets a great example to the "yoof" out on the streets.
When you hear these rioters being interviewed it’s clear that most of them can barely string a coherent sentence together and have somehow managed to receive next to no worthwhile education. Hard to believe that that can be so after 13 years of "education, education, education" and record dosh thrown at the schools system.
I don’t know the answer to feral yobs rioting, but I can suggest a couple of the causes:-
a) Lack of parental control and positive family influence.
and
b) A society (fed by a soft-lefty BBC/media bias) which rewards people for being lazy, feckless and unambitious and keeps them in the benefit trap.I’ve a dear old friend who’s been a nursery teacher in a moderately deprived area of West Yorkshire for over 25 years. She’s not in the least political, but she’s always said that, she could tell which children would grow up to be troublemakers when they were just 4 years old and that they nearly all came from one parent families where that parent (usually the mother) hardly ever encouraged their offspring or said "no" to them. (Now before the Guardianistas start ranting that not all one- parent families produce disadvantaged/badly behaved kids, I’m not saying that they do.)
However, it’s clear that if children do not have the right kind of family upbringing and discipline at an early age (coupled with schooling aimed at really teaching kids rather than just acheiving "targets"), then the fate of many of those youngsters is, sadly, already set on a downward, anti-social trajectory. Perhaps one of the few things that might reverse this for many of them in their teen years and give them a sense of worth and discipline is National Service. Can’t see Harriet Harman agreeing with me on that though. She’d rather throw more benefits at them.Is that National Service for everyone or just the great unwashed? I’m not too happy about the thought of my grandchildren growing up in a country that might send them to war at eighteen instead of university. Supposedly sending young children to nursery is an attempt to instil some sort of discipline into them at a formative age; maybe there will be a result from that in years to come
. A welfare state combined with an economy that is based on people buying beyond their means is a recipe for disaster. Don’t know what the answer is. My heart goes out to the families in Birmingham that have lost their sons. Feel sickened by it and rather helpless.
Riots only occur when the downtrodden dregs of society realize that they are being downtrodden. Therefore, to cure the rioting you all should get rid of your pesky responsible investigative journalism and replace it with Fox News UK.
Yes, insomniac, the militant liberal atheists have an awful lot to answer for.
But as for that quotation:
"Poverty has nothing to do with these riots. If poverty caused such explosive unrest, Calcutta would be permanently in flames."
… it’s nonsense. The Hindu religion inculcates the belief in ‘karma’ and successive reincarnations, according to how well or how badly we live, until we reach ‘samadhi’, their heaven.
So resigned have the Indian masses been to their lot, seeing people dying in the streets, maggots and all, from starvation was normal, until fairly recently.However, I believe the government has taken steps to remove such people from sight. Also, I read the other day, that like the Chinese leaders, they are scared of people becoming rebellious. Don’t they have a TV in the villages these day. Maybe it’s the probable efects of exposure to the larger world outside that worries them.
Of course, poverty has everthign to do with it, and pillorying union leaders for their worldliness, is madness. You set a thief to catch a thief. We need poachers turned gamekeeprs on our side. People who ‘know their way round the block.’ Admirable in the extreme though Mother Theresa was, she would have been useless for fighting to save the world from its worldings.
The reason why Thatcher opened the money spigot, deregulated credit, was because her monied supporters preferred to lend money, albeit at usurious rates, a double whammy – than allow the incomes of the workforce to keep up with inflation, never mind, actually rise. Otherwise, how could they have continued to exploit the people for their gains, make their profits? Continually increasing their profits at all costs is a monomania with them.
At the same time, they’ve been hell-bent on depriving public education of funds. They don’t want an educated workforce, who can understand what they’re doing; still less contribute their share it. But, unworldly though the public is, youngsters today know they are being denied the most elementary rights of citizenship, which their grandfathers fought for in WWII, and enjoyed for a few decades.
But without the guidance of responsible adults – increasingly absent at every level of society – or even a sense of real purpose, they inevitably become bitter and hostile.
Too late to continue now.Can’t believe people on here are blaming everone and everything other than the rioters themselves.
As I understand it, the police cuts have not been implemented yet. Or it’s only just started. So the cuts made no effect on these riots.
A lot of Police criticism is in hindsight. In the student "riots" people were moaning about police over-reaction and kettling. Now they’re moaning about too little police reaction. Had they had thousands of officers on the streets on day one we’d all be saying "over-reaction". Fact is we can not keep tens of thousands of police in work for a decade, just so as there’s enough of them on the streets for three days of rioting.
Don’t blame the Police, or politicians, or the athiests, or the bankers, or the press, or the poor. Blame the rioters and in some cases their parents. So what if they’re "bored" or "disenfranchised"? Tough! These are criminals. It’s nothing to do with the "poor", they’re unemployed and employed, in lowly paid and well paid jobs. But they do have one thing in comman…. Greed! And an excuse for mindless aggression, violence and theft.
Don’t give them an excuse.
The World does not owe anyone a living.
Value Is EverythingThis was the view of TBW many years ago: http://briandeer.com/social/thatcher-society.htm
This was the current PM’s view not quite so long ago, interesting contrast between being in power and opposition. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5164278.stmI've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysWe don’t need more police just so they can be out in force when there are riots; more police out on the streets on a regular basis would stop them happening in the first place. Every govt seems to promise more ‘bobbies on the beat’ but I’ve seen more police over the past 2 days than I’ve seen for months.We must try to solve the reasons why these riots are happening in the first place but have enough police to deal with them when they do. There are only enough police at the moment because all of their leave has been cancelled.
Let’s get one thing clear once and for all – people in this country are not deprived, people in this country are not disadvantaged. These whingers do not even know they are born.
If they want to know what being deprived and disadvantaged is they should try living, if that’s what you can call it, in a Somali refugee camp.
Let’s call these looters what they are, thieves and criminals and stop making excuses for them.
They set off to deprive others of their property now let them pay the price.
Have other people noticed that the most vociferous "apologists" for these criminals are middle-class, champagne socialists, who come from privileged backgrounds yet have probably never had to struggle for anything in their lives – yet they pontificate with self-righteous indignation.
Well if they feel so strongly about these poor "disaffected" people here is a suggestion for them. Why don’t they take them into their comfortable Islington, or wherever, residences and give them a big hug. I wonder how many takers there would be?
As I understand it, the police cuts have not been implemented yet. Or it’s only just started. So the cuts made no effect on these riots.
I think the crux of the argument Ginger, is that the police were stretched at full capacity. Imagine a 20% smaller force against a potential future riot?
We may as well just dig a bunker to hide in if it kicks off again. The police will be powerless to resist.Have other people noticed that the most vociferous "apologists" for these criminals are middle-class, champagne socialists, who come from privileged backgrounds yet have probably never had to struggle for anything in their lives – yet they pontificate with self-righteous indignation.
I certainly have not noticed this at all, but I have noticed that the hang ’em and flog ’em brigade are from the privileged people who have never done a real job in their lives.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysI think the crux of the argument Ginger, is that the police were stretched at full capacity. Imagine a 20% smaller force against a potential future riot?
We may as well just dig a bunker to hide in if it kicks off again. The police will be powerless to resist.The problem was the Police initially under-reacted. They do have enough officers, bringing them in from other areas. The Labour Government brought in so much red tape that policemen were spending too much time writing. Freeing them up from these duties means more bobbies on the beat / out on the streets. So the "20%" figure isn’t the true reduction.
Although of course they should take the last few days in to account and look in to changing that figure. We should bear in mind money needs to be found from somewhere.
Value Is EverythingHave other people noticed that the most vociferous "apologists" for these criminals are middle-class, champagne socialists, who come from privileged backgrounds yet have probably never had to struggle for anything in their lives – yet they pontificate with self-righteous indignation.
I certainly have not noticed this at all, but I have noticed that the hang ’em and flog ’em brigade are from the privileged people who have never done a real job in their lives.
It’s not a question of "hang ’em and flog ’em"; it’s just that we should treat these people as what they are, criminals. People were using other things as an excuse for criminality. There is no excuse for what happened.
I am not of privaleged background. Far from it.
Value Is EverythingWe don’t need more police just so they can be out in force when there are riots; more police out on the streets on a regular basis would stop them happening in the first place. Every govt seems to promise more ‘bobbies on the beat’ but I’ve seen more police over the past 2 days than I’ve seen for months.We must try to solve the reasons why these riots are happening in the first place but have enough police to deal with them when they do. There are only enough police at the moment because all of their leave has been cancelled.
Where I live, I see a policeman drive up the road once a year if we’re lucky. The number of Police is in some ways immaterial. There will never be enough Police to prevent this from happening if enough rioters are on the street. Best way to combat this is for parents not to teach young people the World owes them a living and not to teach greed.
I’ve done work in hundreds of manor houses and stately homes and council houses. Met Lords and comman people. There are good and bad people in every walk of life. I’m writing this from an ex-council house.
The Press likes to divide us. Portraying those with money and aristocracey as not worthy. This creates in some corners of the so called "working class" the "they don’t deserve it and I do" mentallity… Which can lead to vandalism and theft.
I’ve heard some people say the police (or whoever) don’t respect me, so why should I respect them? This is the wrong way to look at it. If both parties believe this, then there will never be any respect shown by anyone.
Every individual should be respected no matter what uniform he/she is wearing or colour of skin. Only if that individual shows absolutely (and I mean absolutely) no sign of reciprocating is there any excuse not to respect them. And even then, the next time you have any dealings with that person, you should show respect.Value Is Everything….I’ve heard some people say the police (or whoever) don’t respect me….
Every individual should be respected no matter what uniform he/she is wearing or colour of skin. Only if that individual shows absolutely (and I mean absolutely) no sign of reciprocating is there any excuse not to respect them. And even then, the next time you have any dealings with that person, you should show respect.
Fine words, G, but what do they mean in practice in stop-and- search, most often claimed to be the "disrespect" ?
The 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, Section 60 allows officers to search anyone, without suspicion, for dangerous instruments or offensive weapons in a designated area for a 24-hour period.
Is there "disrespect" in a situation like this?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14084418
If so, what would be a "respectful" way to tackle gang and knife crime?
Is there a reason there are more stop-and-search area designations in Haringey than in Henley ?
Not had a chance to look at your link yet Wit. But I’d suggest the ethnic communities should expect to be stopped more often than whites. Say there was an offence by a ginger-haired person in the vacinity; and I walked up the street – I’d expect to be "stopped and searched" once, twice or even three times. Would not bother me. If the Police did not stop me because they’d already stopped five other "gingers", then I don’t think they’d be doing their job correctly.
Knife crime is known to be far more of a problem in the black community, so each individual black man should expect to be stopped more often than whites. If it were the white community who were the predominate offenders then we’d be the ones who should expect to be stopped.
If the search is respectfully done then it’s fine. And if it is not respectfully done I would not tarr all Police with the same brush.
There is not as much crime in Henley as there is in Harringay so you would not expect as many stop and searches.
PS I realise some people now think the word "black" is offensive, I think that’s just stupid. It’s their colour, they should be proud of it. After all, I’m a proud redhead.
Value Is Everything
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