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Tote at the festival

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  • #345
    Stormont
    Member
    • Total Posts 300

    Not sure if anyone has heard this yet, but the minimum bet at the festival on the Tote will by £5. This is not as a result of the Tote’s decision, but as of the request of Cheltenham Racecourse itself.

    There will be window stickers deiplayed to tell punters of this, but the staff have been told to use their disgression and can accept the usual £2 bets if they want.

    So, basically it will be the same as some rails bookies who say £5 min bet but in some cases will accept the odd £2.

    I just thought i would let people know that although it will say minimum bet a fiver i would think the majority of staff with allow the usual £2 bets.

    #29386
    jilly
    Member
    • Total Posts 608

    Thank goodness for that :biggrin:

    #29387
    Mounty
    Member
    • Total Posts 455

    Sixty quid to get in and people still want to have two bloody quid on – save me! <br>

    (Edited by Mounty at 10:46 pm on Feb. 19, 2007)

    #29388
    jonny33
    Member
    • Total Posts 51

    it beats me how the tote will quite happily take a placepot bet of a quid in the shops but its two quid minimum on course. is it greed or is it at the request of the courses?

    #29389
    Stormont
    Member
    • Total Posts 300

    Sorry, i forgot to mention that this rule will not be the same in the Best Mate enclosure. £2 will still be the minimum.

    This will effect the Tote if people automatically think they can’t have their normal £2 win on the big priced horses, but as i said. Staff have been told to use their disgression about this matter.

    I’m not quite sure why Cheltenham have all of a sudden asked for them to do this, apart from greed.

    #29390
    davidbrady
    Member
    • Total Posts 3901

    Excuse my ignorance but what difference does it make to the racecourse?

    #29391
    jilly
    Member
    • Total Posts 608

    Maybe they don’t want to see punters who are trying to put a proper bet on being stuck in long ques behind the £2ers.

    #29392
    griff11
    Participant
    • Total Posts 114

    What does it matter whether people want to bet £2, 200 or 2000?

    Not everybody goes to the races to gamble, it’s not the most important factor. No problem to those that do, but a small financial interest for entertainment is all that many want.

    Are racing fans graded by how much they put on, a racing expert bets a minimum of £1000 and then it all progresses down. Perhaps a £2 bettor shouldn’t even be taking up the valuable space at a racecourse. Selfish of them really, they should stay at home and watch it on the telly.

    <br>

    #29393
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3087

    <br>DB,

    It matters to the racecourse because they collect a fixed percentage of the total turnover. Presumably they have had complaints and have chosen to act on them.

    Jonny,

    The comparison with what the Tote will take in a betting shop is flawed – in a shop, it’s the bookmaker that pays the fixed costs for staff and equipment. On course the Tote have to pay the costs and as the takeout on a £1 bet is only a few pence, the transaction cost is probably more than the return.

    Quite why they can’t revert to the method they used in the 60’s and 70’s, when there were different windows for different levels of stake, I’ve no idea.

    The Tote have always been utterly hopeless at dealing with punters wanting bigger stakes anyway. About ten years ago, I went to Yorkshire to go racing during Royal Ascot week. I tried to place a £500 win bet on a short priced Ascot favourite in cash at a Tote window at Thirsk.

    The reaction I got was about the same as if I’d been unmasked as a money launderer for a Colombian cartel.

    I subsequently wrote to Peter Jones, head of the Tote, and asked why a customer offering them a guaranteed profit of £80 for a single quick transaction got worse treatment than one tendering £2 in small change. I suspect his repky is still posted in the press office at No. 10 as a shining example of what public services should aim for in responding to complaints.

    AP

    #29394
    class tells
    Member
    • Total Posts 207

    well said ap

    #29395
    Glenn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1981

    Quote: from apracing on 10:27 am on Feb. 18, 2007[br]

    Quite why they can’t revert to the method they used in the 60’s and 70’s, when there were different windows for different levels of stake, I’ve no idea.

    AP<br>

    They did bring this in a few years ago at some London tracks when they introduced a £10 (or maybe £50 – can’t remember) ‘fast track’ window. The trouble was, like this £5 rule will be, it was just roundly ignored by the £2 punters who queued there to bet ‘whatever Frankie was riding in the next’.

    The tote really is shambolically run. They repeatedly beat SP/bookie exotics, yet have only a tiny fraction of the market.

    I see the latest trend is for bookie’s own bets to dominate the pools when there’s a short priced fav. You see it every time where all the money pumped into the pool early is on the fav, where the bookies with tote direct terminals are paying maybe 88-90p in the pound for their bets.

    Is anyone else a little less than gruntled that an organisation purportedly set up to protect punters from bookies now allows said bookies to bet against them on preferential terms?

    #29396
    Stormont
    Member
    • Total Posts 300

    Quote: from apracing on 10:27 am on Feb. 18, 2007[br]<br>DB,

    It matters to the racecourse because they collect a fixed percentage of the total turnover. Presumably they have had complaints and have chosen to act on them.

    Jonny,

    The comparison with what the Tote will take in a betting shop is flawed – in a shop, it’s the bookmaker that pays the fixed costs for staff and equipment. On course the Tote have to pay the costs and as the takeout on a £1 bet is only a few pence, the transaction cost is probably more than the return.

    Quite why they can’t revert to the method they used in the 60’s and 70’s, when there were different windows for different levels of stake, I’ve no idea.

    The Tote have always been utterly hopeless at dealing with punters wanting bigger stakes anyway. About ten years ago, I went to Yorkshire to go racing during Royal Ascot week. I tried to place a £500 win bet on a short priced Ascot favourite in cash at a Tote window at Thirsk.

    The reaction I got was about the same as if I’d been unmasked as a money launderer for a Colombian cartel.

    I subsequently wrote to Peter Jones, head of the Tote, and asked why a customer offering them a guaranteed profit of £80 for a single quick transaction got worse treatment than one tendering £2 in small change. I suspect his repky is still posted in the press office at No. 10 as a shining example of what public services should aim for in responding to complaints.

    AP<br>

    Right, you were trying to have a £500 bet at THIRSK……… the tote windows probably didn’t take £500 on all the races put together up there :biggrin:

    The big punters tend not to use the Tote, unless they are trying to interrupt the pools.

    Does seem strange you were treated like that, was probably just the shock though.

    As far as this matter goes, Cheltenham are behind this, as AP said, about the fixed percentage they get. and as most of the English public do not like asking questions they will see the "£5 minimum bet" stickers on the window and either walk away or just up their stake without any question asked.

    £2 will still be accpeted by the majority if not all of the window staff as they have been asked to use their disgression on this matter.

    As much as most of you seem to be against the £2 punter, i think it will hurt the Tote and the Racecourse. Everyone i have spoken to admit that the majority of people who use the tote are casual racegoers and have a few little bets for fun, rather than making any serious profit.

    I will very rarely use the tote, unless i have exactas as you can never be sure where you stand with your profit. Even if you leave it until the last minute, the screens are delayed (apparently only 3seconds). I was at Towcester a few weeks ago and got the exacta in the first, about a second before the off the exacta was paying 10.80 for the £1 stake. To my amazment it returned paying 6.20!

    #29397
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3087

    <br>Telegraph business section today reports that, if the racing consortium is successful in their bid for the Tote, their business plan includes online poker and bingo.

    They claim the income from these things would be needed to help repay the debt incurred by the consortium.

    God forbid they should actually try to increase the size of the race by race pools, which is after all the basic business of a Tote.

    Very depressing …….

    AP

    #29398
    Malc Smith
    Member
    • Total Posts 61

    I wonder if this is done to build up the pools.

    When I was there for the Open last year I noted that even the outsiders were getting better prices with the bookmakers.

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