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What is so annoying about the French imports is the WFA allowances they get ……..
WFA does exactly what it says on the tin – it is not the sole preserve of French-bred horses. Last time I checked, L’Ami wasn’t qualified for a WFA allowance, despite the fact he is French-bred and French-trained.
Whether the WFA scale is fair or not, is another matter, but it isn’t loaded in favour of French-breds – only early starters.
Grasshopper is right. Look at the allowance Fair Along got last year in the Arkle and tell me he deserved that through lack of experience and maturity. Taking into account his Flat runs as well and he was one of the most experienced in the field.
What is so annoying about the French imports is the WFA allowances they get ……..
Whether the WFA scale is fair or not, is another matter, but it isn’t loaded in favour of French-breds – only early starters.
Which mostly happen to be French breds, as you well know.
As for DJ picking up on Fair Along, as the exception to the rule, it only goes to prove my point.
As I said in the post, I have nothing against French breds, only the NH WFA scale, which has been modified, though not enough IMO.All I know, WW, is that a lot of people are buying French-bred horses.
On top of that, I also know that English and Irish-bred horses get exactly the same allowances as French-breds of the same age.
What I fail to grasp, is why this should make French-breds particularly "annoying", whereas other breeds in receipt of the same allowances are presumably not "annoying".
If your complaint is with the WFA scale, then fair enough. Your original post could have been clearer.
As you well know.
The real influence of the French bred horses has been to reduce the age at which horses switch to fences – at least that’s what a look back would suggest.
At the Cheltenham Festival in 1987, there were no 5-y-olds in any of the chases. The average age of the runners in the Grand Annual was nine!
Seven of the eight runners in the Champion Chase were seven or older and the only 6-y-old went off at 1000/1.
In the Gold Cup, there was a single 8-y-old and the other eleven were all older.
Regardless of where they are bred, it’s a different game now.
AP
This idea that UK or Irish-bred chasers have always been slow-maturing types is just not true.
Looking back at past winners of the Irish Grand National, I see quite a few winners aged 5, and two aged 4 – but these were all before the First World War, none bred in France incidentally.
Even fairly recently, 1960 to 1970 produced three 6-y-o winners of the race, all Irish-bred, I believe.
So, the message to breeders is "get on with it!".
To some extent the fashion is cyclical. Remember when NZ-breds were all the rage?
Not half – David Barons had a whole yard full of them in the 1980s and early 1990s, Seagram arguably being the greatest achiever.
Guesty was merrily filling his yard with them until 18 months or so ago, arguing the case for their value for money and longevity; and although many of them disappeared along with Paul Beck and Concertina Racing’s patronage, it is worth noting that he re-acquired one of them, Donovan, at the sales this summer despite him rising nine and has won another two races with him already.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
My freind was importing most of RG’s NZ breds.
He was buying £30k+ horses for £15k(including the shipping). They were popular as the trial races they run in over there dont go on record, and they are good for a gamble.
He stopped importing so many as most of the trainers dont want to give them the 6months off they need to aclimatise, and it knackers them. Of course they are already 6 months behind age wise.My freind was importing most of RG’s NZ breds.
He was buying £30k+ horses for £15k(including the shipping).…which Guesty was then selling to owners for up to £55k a pop (in the cases of Drumossie, Durba and Guerilla), judging by the prices on both his and the Bloodstock TV website at the time. Nice work.
He stopped importing so many as most of the trainers dont want to give them the 6months off they need to aclimatise,
It can be as much the owners as the trainers in some cases – I know Guesty sold NZ horses to owners with the caveat that they wouldn’t reach their peak straight away (even though a handful like Diamond Cutter and One Day did actually manage to win bad races on debut), but some just wouldn’t wait long enough.
Of course they are already 6 months behind age wise.
Aye, and that’s pretty much why Guesty wrote off Donovan’s first – hopeless – season, he effectively being a three and a half year-old a long way from home taking on native four year-olds for the rump of it. He’s come good seven times since, though.
What does your friend import now, if I may be so bold as to ask? And to whom? I know Guesty has dabbled with Polish-breds more recently, but wouldn’t honestly know whether he’s been making all these trips over to Sluzewiec and the like himself or is now using the same agent as the foremost Polish importer, Tom George. And how oddments like the Indian-bred Statley Raj have got here are, I suspect, stories in themselves.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I think he still imports a few from NZ, just not quite so many.
Will pm you later when I have more time !Dont quite agree they are better bred.
Thay are quite thin boned made jumpers in France,they usually hit there peak at around 5-7 years(theyll be heeps of exceptions!!!).
And i will always say the Irish still breed the best National hunt horses on the planet..Just myOpinion
I love the variety of breeding sources in NH. I recall seeing horses from Chile, Argentina, Spain, Poland and Sweden amongst others.
I`d agree that French breds seem to have held sway for some time and as many have said they tend to peak at younger ages especially as we used to expect Irish and GB chasers to peak at about nine.Surely something`s got to give whith the spiralling prices though
I recall David Morley( 6 and 7 yr olds in handicap chases seemed odd then) and Alan Jarvis having success up to a point with quite a few French breds in the seventies. Fred Winter had Observe( certainly a horse who peaked young) and a few others but Pipe`s inspired exploitation seems to have been the catalyst.
There seems to be a burgeoning demand demand for German breds following a bit of success
Most of the trends seem to have involved the search for better value for money – I remember Mick Fitzgerald saying there was no money in Ireland in the eighties – practically everything was being sold to Britain. That`s all changed and the prices being charged look prohibitive
NZ breds don`t seem popular now although Stan Mellor ,Derek Kent, David Barons did enjoy a fair bit of success with them.Don`t suppose Guesty`s experience will signal much of a revival sadly
Dont quite agree they are better bred.
Thay are quite thin boned made jumpers in France,they usually hit there peak at around 5-7 years(theyll be heeps of exceptions!!!).
And i will always say the Irish still breed the best National hunt horses on the planet..Just myOpinion
Isn’t it simply that because horses starting their careers in French NH do so younger, so wear and tear from racing catches up with them earlier?
It would be interesting to compare their longevity with ex-Flat horses switching to NH, or with French-breds brought over to Britain as store horses and following the traditional NH route.
Dont quite agree they are better bred.
Thay are quite thin boned made jumpers in France,they usually hit there peak at around 5-7 years(theyll be heeps of exceptions!!!).
And i will always say the Irish still breed the best National hunt horses on the planet..Just myOpinion
Probably best to point out here that the term ‘French-bred’ is covering quite a broad church.
Plenty of the (FR) horses over here are proper thoroughbreds, with bloodlines not much different from those in Ireland or GB – for example Sublimity (by Selkirk), Twist Magic (by Winged Love), Royal Shakespeare or Monkerhostin.
Some are pure thoroughbred, but from typically French lines, such as Kauto Star (by Village Star, from the Mill Reef line), Royal Auclair (by Garde Royale out of a Carmont mare) or Baracouda.
Some are French non-thoroughbred from their dam line, but are by fairly conventional thoroughbred sires – My Way de Solzen, for example and Mighty Man.
Some are the more complex Selle Francais bloodlines, still mixed with thoroughbred, but bearing little relation to the breed as it is over here, The Fellow, Neptune Collonges, L’Ami, Clan Royal.
So sweeping statements about French-breds, why they are successful, and the merits versus Irish and British bred horses are not very helpful, when all these wildly different bloodlines are lumped together in one category.
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