- This topic has 19 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 12 months ago by
.
- Posts
I’d previously ignored the Timeform ‘Free Form’ site but took a look tonight to see whether there was any interesting info. The ‘Timeform Says’ verdict on the race and the individual horse comments seem to be written in a most un-Timeformlike style. In fact, I’d go so far as to say it smacked of the sort of ‘give every runner a chance’ comment that is standard fodder in most racecards.
Are Timeform putting any content into this ‘Free Form’ that bears any relation to its Perspective comments for the same horses?
It is in a different style, for obvious reasons, but the copy is produced by Timeform editorial staff and is compiled from core products, namely the comments and perspective. I’d certainly not agree that they give every runner a chance. The ‘free’ site is also accessed via the betfair site and is also aimed at customers that are new to the product as well as those with more experience of using such information.
- Total Posts 43
It certainly wouldn’t provoke the unitiated into forking out for Timeform’s products, which is surely the sole reason it’s being produced. Too bland and uninsightful by far. Draws conclusions that can be woefully misleading too.
- Total Posts 43
For example, today’s note for
Luna Landing
Successful over hurdles when last seen in December, but failed to get his head in front in handicaps last season and stamina a grave concern on first attempt at 2m.
No reference to the fact he won last time out over hurdles at a trip of 2m4f, and has every chance of staying the 2m trip today on that evidence. Desperate stuff.
Hi Zee Zoo, I think the accepted practice is to multiply a horse’s optimal trip on the Flat by about 1.8 to get its optimal trip over hurdles. So reversing this, winning a 20f hurdle race equates to an 11f or 12f Flat race.
edit: Bulwark is the Forumite for this – its all about the slower pace they go in hurdle races.
- Total Posts 43
I know there’s a difference, but I’ll give a 2m4f hurdles winner a good chance of staying 2m on the Flat all day long, especially given the manner of Luna Landing’s hurdles win.
Timeform 1-0 Zee Zoo it would seem.
I’d say that the Betfair in-running highs and lows that are carried on the Timeform free site are about as useful a free resource as you can find anywhere.
Never been too impressed by Timeforms racecards for the price. No doubt the ratings are a very good indication of a horses general ability but they seem to be frequently overbet. The attached comments are very generalised and vague a lot of the time.
However I purchased my first Racehorses annual in March and it is quality (aside from the tacky dustjacket which was quickly discarded). So much to learn about racing in those pages, I doubt any sport is as well served as racing is by the review of the year that Timeform produce in that book. Clearly a labour of love for those who compile it. I look forward to getting the NH edition later in the year.
I’ve also really enjoyed reading the Timeform Perspective content on the superb Godolphin website. What a pity Timeform don’t provide a full online version of Perspective.
- Total Posts 43
Aftertiming Brevity? I will take 1.5 that whoever wrote that comment wasn’t aware Luna Landing won over 2m4f – as he was probably reading Luna Landing’s Timeform Flat form and that’s separate from Timeform’s NH form innit.
I’m not saying Timeform are a desperate outfit, far from it. They’re victims of their own high standards in this case, because their free form doesn’t give half the insight that their Perspective comments does.
I wouldn’t bother criticising the Racing Post’s Spotlight comments for example, because THEIR post race analysis is frequently half-baked cliche-ridden bilge.
You remind me strongly of a long-gone forumite with a Z moniker Zee Zou- are you a Fist-like reincarnation?
their free form doesn’t give half the insight that their Perspective comments does.
.Haven’t had a gander at the ‘free form’ but suffice to say if it did include "half the insight" or verbatim quotes then those who stump up a healthy subs for the Perspective and/or related products would have every right to feel aggrieved that their ‘for own use only’ (Timeform stipulation) was anything but that.
Should Timeform via their new parent Betfair decide, in their wisdom, to put yet more of their once subs-only info into the public domain then the very least they should do is reduce the subscriptions to the products they’re nicked from.
At least the 2009/10 Jumps Computer Timeform hasn’t had the subs increased
Thanks for small mercies chaps
Haven’t had a gander at the ‘free form’ but suffice to say if it did include "half the insight" or verbatim quotes then those who stump up a healthy subs for the Perspective and/or related products would have every right to feel aggrieved that their ‘for own use only’ (Timeform stipulation) was anything but that.
Should Timeform via their new parent Betfair decide, in their wisdom, to put yet more of their once subs-only info into the public domain then the very least they should do is reduce the subscriptions to the products they’re nicked from.
At least the 2009/10 Jumps Computer Timeform hasn’t had the subs increased
Thanks for small mercies chaps
I just cannot for the life of me work out what Timeform hope to achieve with this free form (particularly the Timeform view bit). Either the comments and conclusion are based on Timeform ratings and Perspective comments or they are just Timeform’s answer to the Racing Post’s Spotlight ie uninformed bo55ocks.
They will either pi55 off their subscribers or convince non-subscribers that Timeform’s other products aren’t worth buying.
A big own goal IMHO
Aftertiming Brevity? I will take 1.5 that whoever wrote that comment wasn’t aware Luna Landing won over 2m4f – as he was probably reading Luna Landing’s Timeform Flat form and that’s separate from Timeform’s NH form innit.
I doubt it. I’d suggest that they are simply treating flat and hurdling exploits as separate entities. Whoever it was clearly knew that Luna Landing had won over hurdles but considered it less than relevant in the context of today’s race.
That was hell of a plunge on Luna Landing anyway, both in the Betting Ring and on betfair. Need to keep an eye on it for the next couple of runs.
- Total Posts 43
Carvillshill, never posted here before. Are you the same (somewhat infamous!) carvillshill that posts on the Betfair forum?
Exacty Tutters, there’s no way anyone reading this free form guide would be persuaded to pay for their other products.
Until a few months ago the free Timeform racecard had a decent summary of each horses last run. I found this very useful to indicate horses with godo recent form, or where the last run was poor because of unsuitable ground or distance. Big shame they replaced it with the Timeform says, which is too brief to be much use.
The old style card would I think encourage people to buy products – it did me – but I don’t think the Timeform says will.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.