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I’m presuming C4 will use the course commentary, which probably does not bode well for Mark Johnson,
Mark Johnson might just be visible enough on the radar of C4 to be used in a three- or four-person commentary unit, for all that the his involvement with the channel has been primarily as an athletics anchor up to now.
gc
My understanding is C4 have three categories of commentator.
The "preferred" team, who are the usual suspects.
The "non referral" team – these are the non-C4 commentators who are "acceptable" to C4, without referral, when taking course commentaries – these include(ed) callers like Mark Johnson, Malcolm Tomlinson, Lee McKenzie etc
Any other commentator scheduled to call at a C4 meeting who is not on the above lists needs to be "approved" by C4 and will either be agreed on a case by case basis or C4 will either request a change or provide their own additional commentator.
I would implore C4 to make use of Darren Owen, not least if the worst came to the worst in regard of the ongoing Racetech "death row" situation and he finds himself off the roster come the end of June (a bigger injustice commentator-wise it would be harder to envisage, IMHO).
gc
Absolutely agree
I’m almost certain Channel 4 would want to have their own TV commentary team for the Grand National, not least so the commentators can all be shown on camera to the viewers at some point.
"Let’s meet our commentary team who have got the difficult job of calling this first ever Grand National on Channel 4…."
Jim McGrath and Darren Owen were shown together during the BBC’s coverage on Saturday.
I’d be absolutely amazed if Channel 4 wanted to use the course commentary for the National, especially as the course commentaries used by Channel 4 on many occasions are often marred soundwise by echoing (especially at Ascot) and sometimes relatively poor quality sound.
I originally thought that Richard Hoiles might prefer to opt to be number one commentator for the course coverage (sharing and alternating that with Mark Johnson) but have changed my mind and now think he would prefer to be part of what will be unveiled as a new, dynamic, top class TV team, with Simon Holt leading the team, with Richard Hoiles and Stewart Machin.
It would be a slight demotion for Richard, not being the main commentator. He has often been the main man for the course team, but the increased prestige of the TV coverage would compensate for that.
We can be certain that Mike Cattermole will not be part of the Channel 4 race commentary team. After his gaffe-prone Aintree efforts until a few years ago for the course team, I don’t think he would want to risk being slated for getting it wrong on Channel 4’s first attempt at the race on national TV.
I believe he stepped down voluntarily after his unhappy and heavily-criticised previous association with the National course commentary, opting for the easier option of hosting Lingfield coverage for Channel 4 on National day.
We can also rule out Tommo, despite his boast on the internet that he is still the youngest man ever to have commentated on the National, when he was part of the Radio 2 team in the old days.
Ian Bartlett, now free of the BBC TV commentary team for the National, will almost certainly be part of the course team. He always used to be part of the Cheltenham Festival course team years ago. Probably more likely to be part of the course team than joining the BBC radio team.
Darren Owen’s future is obviously under threat now that he is under review for his course commentary duties. If he is kept on, he could be part of the course team but no chance for Channel 4.
Lee McKenzie could be an outsider for either the TV or course teams. He did the "John Hanmer fences" for many years for the radio but now seems to pop up as a spotter for the National.
According to Dave Monk and others, Jim McGrath made a few mistakes in his Grand National commentary. Bets that he will disappear from both course and TV commentaries by the end of this year should soon be "home for all money".
I’m sure that Channel 4 will use Simon Holt for the Royal Ascot TV coverage too. Channel 4 don’t use the course commentaries of Richard Hoiles, Mike Cattermole and Mark Johnson at Cheltenham so I can’t see why they would use course commentaries for their new expanded list including the BBC’s crown jewels. Having the right sound and feel, and the ability to interact with the presenters, will be deemed more important than the cost.
No doubt there would be an increase in the use of course commentaries for lesser meetings to compensate for the increased costs of using their own TV commentators at big meetings.I would implore C4 to make use of Darren Owen, not least if the worst came to the worst in regard of the ongoing Racetech "death row" situation and he finds himself off the roster come the end of June (a bigger injustice commentator-wise it would be harder to envisage, IMHO).
gc
Absolutely agree
Seconded – absolute disgrace that Darren Owen is "under review".
These days, there are plenty of high-class race commentators knocking around, and it shouldn’t be too difficult for C4 to come up with a team for Aintree to do a good job in that particular department.
It’s all the other elements of their Grand National/Royal Ascot coverage that have me worried.
If C4 did have their own commentary for the GN (assuming it is run of course) then my money would be of an on-course team of Mark Johnson, Ian Bartlett and Darren Owen (although if BBC Radio lose the radio rights I would make it John Hunt instead of Darren Owen)
I would implore C4 to make use of Darren Owen, not least if the worst came to the worst in regard of the ongoing Racetech "death row" situation and he finds himself off the roster come the end of June (a bigger injustice commentator-wise it would be harder to envisage, IMHO).
gc
The whole death row situation is an injustice Jeremy.
I wonder how Simon Holt feels about this? I get the feeling (no proof mind) that hes not a fan of the race at all.
He used to do the betting shop commentary for the race with Graham Goode (i think in those days the racecourse piped out the radio commentary) and I get the feeling he wasnt that bothered when that ended.
I wonder how Simon Holt feels about this? I get the feeling (no proof mind) that hes not a fan of the race at all.
He used to do the betting shop commentary for the race with Graham Goode (i think in those days the racecourse piped out the radio commentary) and I get the feeling he wasnt that bothered when that ended.Certainly a lot easier for Simon Holt doing the Morning Line from Lingfield and often the course commentary there, taken by Channel 4 on Grand National day.
Will be a different story for him next year when Channel 4 televises the Grand National.
Seems a long time ago that he and Graham Goode did the National commentaries. I think the partnership was first broken when Channel 4 televised a Flat meeting from Hamilton on Grand National day many years ago and he was one who dipped out to switch to Hamilton.
He’ll do a fine job at Aintree. Will certainly be fascinating to watch. Quite a few commentators, including those on "death row", and presenters on both channels will be facing squeaky-bum time about their futures over the next few months.Worryingly I agree with Crusty …..besides any remote chance of watching Tanya , Lesley , Thommo , and the rest of those broadcasters is enough to ensure I never watch Ch 4
Am I right in saying Ruk will broadcast Royal Ascot this year ??, if so panic over Mrs Mannering ..we are not all doomed just yet
I will never ever watch Ch 4 ,the thought of multi ad breaks during Royal Ascot leaves one a bit cold ….tasteful they are not ….imo
Ricky
Worryingly I agree with Crusty
Worrying indeed. I assume you are agreeing with my praise for the BBC’s Aintree coverage.
Reminded me of when David Cameron and Gordon Brown were vying with each other during the general election to say "I agree with Nick". Look where agreeing with Nick Clegg has got us…..any remote chance of watching Tanya , Lesley , Thommo , and the rest of those broadcasters is enough to ensure I never watch Ch 4
Am I right in saying Ruk will broadcast Royal Ascot this year ??, if so panic over Mrs Mannering ..we are not all doomed just yet
I will never ever watch Ch 4 ,the thought of multi ad breaks during Royal Ascot leaves one a bit cold ….tasteful they are not ….imoI knew Exeter, Kelso and Perth were joining Racing UK (see the thread entitled "Exeter, Kelso & Perth join Racing UK") but I thought Ascot was staying with At The Races (for now, at least).
As Paul Ostermeyer has pointed out, it seems to be the belief that Ascot will almost certainly join the fold at Racing UK before too long.
The ad breaks during Channel 4 coverage, not to mention the bookmaker "racing will resume in 30 seconds" bits, will certainly ruin Royal Ascot. We have got to accept the ads but obviously we don’t have to like them. Thank goodness for recording and fast-forwarding.
I think the Channel 4 coverage will devalue the occasion. No doubt the grinning Irish woman, Marietta Doran, will be doing the fashion coverage instead of the foxy Suzi Perry. Now that’s worrying…..Jim made the terrible error of missing/mixing fallers AGAIN, no excuse. Barty didnt, neither Darren Owen.
Finally watched the video of Friday’s BBC coverage of Aintree and was amazed in the final televised race to hear Jim McGrath struggling unsuccessfully for about two furlongs to identify two fallers on the far side.
After stumbling and bumbling and just saying that two had fallen, without saying who they were, it was clear he was still looking at the monitor, hoping that the BBC pictures would come to the rescue and instantly show him which two it was that had fallen, instead of getting his binoculars on them.
When the TV pictures continued failing to show the jockeys getting to their feet, he was left still floundering for what seemed like an eternity. He was obviously getting no help whatsoever from his spotter (presumably John Hanmer) or from Richard Dunwoody, who was in the commentary box with him, doing the totally unnecessary repeated in-running comments.
Certainly not Jim’s finest hour. Normally, when he misses fallers, he is almost immediately rescued by the cameramen and the director, showing the jockeys getting to their feet and enabling him to "identify" the fallers. Not this time, Jim, and it certainly showed.
Would be interesting to know how quickly Stewart Machin, who was doing the course commentary, picked up the names of the fallers by comparison.
Earlier the same day, Jim had mentioned that well-known jockey, Brian Geraghty, instead of Barry. Doh!Would be interesting to know how quickly Stewart Machin, who was doing the course commentary, picked up the names of the fallers by comparison.
Have just watched the replay which confirms my recollection that Stewart got both fallers as soon as they went down (he did have a head-on shot at the time but still a very quick call – not sure what angle the BBC had) – he also reported both horses and one rider up within a dozen strides and that would have been from the bins.
Would be interesting to know how quickly Stewart Machin, who was doing the course commentary, picked up the names of the fallers by comparison.
Have just watched the replay which confirms my recollection that Stewart got both fallers as soon as they went down (he did have a head-on shot at the time but still a very quick call – not sure what angle the BBC had) – he also reported both horses and one rider up within a dozen strides and that would have been from the bins.
Thanks, Paul. As I suspected. I knew I could rely on you!
I thought Stewart Machin would not have been floundering like Jim, who tends to rely on the BBC cameramen coming to his rescue by showing the jockeys prostrate on the ground to make up for what he has missed.
The BBC shots were very fleeting, admittedly, and soon moved on to the leaders but it shows once again how Jim’s over-reliance on the monitor, and being bailed out by the speed of the BBC director in showing the aftermath of the fall, has let him down this time.Oh dear, what price did Nazreef trade in running today??, clearly tailed off red cap 3f out, only to be mentioned in the firing line at the 1f pole. Betting in running = bookies satchel filler!!
Would be interesting to know how quickly Stewart Machin, who was doing the course commentary, picked up the names of the fallers by comparison.
Have just watched the replay which confirms my recollection that Stewart got both fallers as soon as they went down (he did have a head-on shot at the time but still a very quick call – not sure what angle the BBC had) – he also reported both horses and one rider up within a dozen strides and that would have been from the bins.
Thanks, Paul. As I suspected. I knew I could rely on you!
I thought Stewart Machin would not have been floundering like Jim, who tends to rely on the BBC cameramen coming to his rescue by showing the jockeys prostrate on the ground to make up for what he has missed.
The BBC shots were very fleeting, admittedly, and soon moved on to the leaders but it shows once again how Jim’s over-reliance on the monitor, and being bailed out by the speed of the BBC director in showing the aftermath of the fall, has let him down this time.The same happened in the Topham im afraid Crusty, Jimbo calling the wrong faller without even thinking, mind you the camera angle didnt help, but in this day and age that dosn’t warrant much leeway. Infact he would get away with it, if it wasn’t for the bumbling then the quick mutter and stutter.
The same happened in the Topham im afraid Crusty, Jimbo calling the wrong faller without even thinking, mind you the camera angle didnt help, but in this day and age that dosn’t warrant much leeway. Infact he would get away with it, if it wasn’t for the bumbling then the quick mutter and stutter.
In one of the BBC races from Aintree I finally watched today, he managed to say "out deeper on the track" and "further back in the field" within words of each other without actually saying what was "out deeper on the track" and "further back in the field".
He’ll certainly be making the job of the commentator user group much easier in deciding to get rid of him as a course commentator.
At least we can be sure the new Channel 4 Aintree team won’t be making blunders like this.
I understand Matt Chapman is being confirmed as a definite permanent addition to the commentators’ rota. No doubt he will be sponsored by Orange and Tango. The future’s Orange, the future’s Chapman.The same happened in the Topham im afraid Crusty, Jimbo calling the wrong faller without even thinking, mind you the camera angle didnt help, but in this day and age that dosn’t warrant much leeway. Infact he would get away with it, if it wasn’t for the bumbling then the quick mutter and stutter.
In one of the BBC races from Aintree I finally watched today, he managed to say "out deeper on the track" and "further back in the field" within words of each other without actually saying what was "out deeper on the track" and "further back in the field".
He’ll certainly be making the job of the commentator user group much easier in deciding to get rid of him as a course commentator.
At least we can be sure the new Channel 4 Aintree team won’t be making blunders like this.
I understand Matt Chapman is being confirmed as a definite permanent addition to the commentators’ rota. No doubt he will be sponsored by Orange and Tango. The future’s Orange, the future’s Chapman.One thing is for sure, the future ISN’T bright if the futures Chapman.
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