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This raises all sorts of issues – ‘BangorBet’ yesterday

Home Forums Horse Racing This raises all sorts of issues – ‘BangorBet’ yesterday

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 36 total)
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  • #21598
    betlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2789

    For those not aware, Bangor operated it’s own ‘Tote’ yesterday, returning it’s own dividends. The report below is from the RP:

    BRITAIN’S first horserace meeting without on-course Tote betting for more than 80 years, at Bangor on Saturday, inevitably drew a mixed response from racegoers but was hailed a success in practical terms by the management.

    Criticism among betting-shop punters was balanced by favourable reaction from less price-sensitive restaurant customers serviced by an efficient team of couriers.

    Course managing director Richard Thomas, who has pioneered the in-house, fixed-odds service at Bangor and sister track Chester after persuading his board to ditch the Tote, said: “We’re on a learning curve, but the systems have held up well and I’m delighted with the way the staff have handled the first day.

    “Turnover levels have been good, and although we’re learning as we go, I’m generally happy with the way things have worked out.”

    Tony May, director of the new Chester-Bangor gaming division and a former Tote regional manager, added: “We have learned a lot, but the most important point to take out of today is that the betting system has worked perfectly.

    “We changed some of the screen displays during the afternoon, and we’ll be looking at where we can make other improvements before the next meeting here in a fortnight’s time.”

    One area already earmarked for change is the on-course betting shop, which drew critical comments from regular punters encountering an unfamiliar mix of products, as well as the absence of Tote pool betting.

    Regular racegoer Clive Bartley, from Ellesmere Port, summed up the general reaction. He said: “I’m not impressed. There’s nowhere to find the results; you can’t take a price, and if you have a combination bet it has to be on races at the track, not anywhere else.

    “The disadvantage of losing the Tote, which a lot ofpeople like betting on, is that it’s now more of a monopoly for the racecourse. I won’t be betting in the shop.”

    Management identified the former Tote outlet as a deficiency even before it opened for business, Thomas said, adding: “It’s not the best betting-shop experience, which it should be.

    “There are things we can change and things we can add, and this is one area that we will look at seriously.”

    What will notchange, though, is the range of fixed-odds bets being offered, from win and each-way to forecasts and combinations, with minimum stakes varying from £2 for most bets to £7 for an each-way patent.

    Thomas said: “I know people can be resistant to change but in time I think the majority will come to accept what we are offering.

    “We will be happy if our returned prices beat the Tote on most occations.”

    Tote odds, without the benefit of on-course stakes, beat bangorBET odds in four of the seven races, while bangorBET prices lagged behind the official SP, as Thomas had predicted.

    Mike

    #401757
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    Richard Thomas and his ilk want stringing up. Punters at Bangor and Chester are being offered a looky-likey betting experience which he freely admits will be "a bit like SP, only worse". No choice, no prices, no guaranteed pools, all in the belief that punters are like sheep and simply settle for what they’re offered.

    Quotes such as the following sum him up:

    "I don’t think we’ll alienate too many racegoers by not having pool bets. I’m sure those people who bet with the Tote did so because they had prime positions and it was simple to bet with them."

    #401760
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    If other racecourses see this as revenue-generating they are certain to follow suit.

    What is the background, who is behind it (i.e. who actually lays the bets), what’s the mechanism?

    ‘in-house, fixed-odds service’

    ????

    #401762
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    Small courses like Bangor or Chester with not many fixtures or punters won’t change the way things are done, they’ll do well to survive the ongoing depression.

    #401766
    indocine
    Member
    • Total Posts 489

    Yep, what is the pricing mechanism? They can call it fixed odds but if it so much as quacks like a tote then Fred will want to fry it crispy.

    #401768
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    I think it will be a very good earner for them at Chester where most of the crowd would be none the wiser and I suspect these Bangor meetings are the "dry runs" for Chester.

    Small courses like Bangor or Chester with not many fixtures or punters won’t change the way things are done, they’ll do well to survive the ongoing depression.

    I think you underestimate Chester Simon – despite having some of the most expensive admission costs in racing it sells out at virtually every meeting.

    Unfortunately the type of crowd it attracts, on the whole, couldn’t give a toss about the racing so they wouldn’t even know if they were being taken for a ride with the betting.

    I’m not sure I like the idea of courses going it alone but I can see why they are doing it – the Chester / Bangor management team are clearly financially very astute.

    #401772
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    If other racecourses see this as revenue-generating they are certain to follow suit.

    What is the background, who is behind it (i.e. who actually lays the bets), what’s the mechanism?

    ‘in-house, fixed-odds service’

    ????

    I’m told the dividends are simply SP with a 10% reduction, which if true is nothing short of scandalous.

    #401774
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5937

    I not that Tote dividends were returned for Bangor yesterday. I presume that totepool are still running pools on Chester and Bangor races even if only off-course?

    The course maybe running their own betting but it doesn’t seem anything like a Tote, rather just an ‘on-course’ SP.

    Paul Oste4rmayer had it about right, most people on course couldn’t give a t*** what the prices are or how they are formed. Even those betting at board prices are often clueless, taking prices when better is available next door. Businesses take advantage of people’s idleness (or naivety) on a regular basis, so I can’t see it’s a surprise if racecourses do it.

    Rob

    #401775
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    Who lays it/underwrites the best Rory – the course themselves or a third party do you know?

    Presumably the course needs a bookmaking license to take these bets?

    #401776
    Nenni
    Participant
    • Total Posts 449

    It isn’t a tote in that it isn’t a pool bet. You can’t take a price though. You are paid out at the final dividend which is SP less a fixed percentage, which is around 10%. Of course you can’t get SP anywhere as there is now no betting shop on the course.

    The Tote still declares a dividend at Bangor but the pool is made up from punters off course and anyone at Bangor with access to a Tote account via phone, etc.

    An unintended consequence of this is that the Tote is sometimes declaring freak dividends on Bangor races. Look at the bumper yesterday. The SP’s of the first three home were 10/1, 9/2 jf and 5/1.

    The Tote dividends were Win 22.90, Place 12.40, 7.30 and 4.00 so in two out of three cases the Place dividends were bigger than SP and even the third horse paid far better than 1/5th odds.

    The next meeting at Bangor is 4th May. Get hovering over your Tote accounts!

    #401777
    Nenni
    Participant
    • Total Posts 449

    In terms of the mechanism for placing a bet, Bangorbet have taken over all the old Tote windows plus the old betting shop. To place a bet you go to the window. The screen above displays a ‘predicted return’ for each horse though the actual dividend isn’t declared until after the race. There are also predicted returns for the forecast bets and any other bets offered.

    There were also members of staff going round the hospitality areas with mobile terminals so punters in those areas could place a bet without leaving their seats.

    #401779
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5937

    I Of course you can’t get SP anywhere as there is now no betting shop on the course.

    I presume you can still bet SP with the on-course bookmakers.

    Rob

    #401781
    Nenni
    Participant
    • Total Posts 449

    Yes the on course bookmakers weren’t directly affected by the changes so if they offered SP before then they would continue to do so.

    #401789
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    I’ve been hoping since the sale of the Tote that a course would be brave enough to say "Up yours Fred" and offer an alternative to the Tote.

    I presume that Betfred’s exclusive licence for pool betting prevents them offering pool bets but that licence will expire in a few years and courses like Chester/Bangor will hopefully bt in a position to take advantage at that point.

    Make no mistake, if racecourses are to thrive they need to go down this route.

    #401798
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    I’ve been hoping since the sale of the Tote that a course would be brave enough to say "Up yours Fred" and offer an alternative to the Tote.

    I presume that Betfred’s exclusive licence for pool betting prevents them offering pool bets but that licence will expire in a few years and courses like Chester/Bangor will hopefully bt in a position to take advantage at that point.

    Make no mistake, if racecourses are to thrive they need to go down this route.

    Ah yes, the route of robbing their customers on all possible fronts. I suppose it might work at Chester, where big crowds are guaranteed, but it’s hardly a panacea for most racecourses.

    #401800
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    It begs the question – is what they did actually legal. I’m assuming they’d looked at that aspect in detail.

    #401809
    The Judge
    Member
    • Total Posts 74

    I think it will be a very good earner for them at Chester where most of the crowd would be none the wiser and I suspect these Bangor meetings are the "dry runs" for Chester.

    Small courses like Bangor or Chester with not many fixtures or punters won’t change the way things are done, they’ll do well to survive the ongoing depression.

    I think you underestimate Chester Simon – despite having some of the most expensive admission costs in racing it sells out at virtually every meeting.

    Unfortunately the type of crowd it attracts, on the whole, couldn’t give a toss about the racing so they wouldn’t even know if they were being taken for a ride with the betting.

    I’m not sure I like the idea of courses going it alone but I can see why they are doing it – the Chester / Bangor management team are clearly financially very astute.

    I think Paul has this spot on. There may be some value (is there any value in racegoing at Chester these days?) in studying off course totes at some of the quieter Bangor and Chester meetings in the coming months. I’m not convinced there will be much value to be had in BangorBET or ChesterBET, but time will tell and, as Tuffers points out, pool betting could be a very different landscape in a few years time.

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