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This massive gamble.

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  • #6290
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    Fade to Grey at Kempton on Tuesday is the race in question.

    Good luck to them if they got on the money they claimed but owners Bill Hinge and Gary Smallbone and assisted by a friend John Searchfield claim to have got £750 ew @50/1 with Hills, £500 ew with VC bet@ 50/1, £250 ew with Sunderlands @ 50/1, £300 ew @ 50/1 withTotesport and just £150 ew @66/1 with Camberley firm Edens.They also claimed to have had smaller wagers elsewhere.
    This horse was well supported on day on betfair from a starting point of 109/1 into 9/1.

    However a friend of mine last week wanted to back one of his greyhounds at the Stow. He has a credit account with Hills and a well known Greyhound owner mainly to owning former greyhound of the year Firehight Dan. He phoned in a bet for £600 @4/1. The telephone operator had to refer it to a supervisor who asked him he if thought it would win!
    When he said he thought it might he was given £300 @4s and the rest would have to be at S.P.
    The 4/1 was the first live show.
    This was a puppy race on a BAGS card.
    He had enough credit to allow him the full stake and is not in a profitable situation with them this year.

    When Shaun Murphy won the World snooker Hills had him at 150/1 as he had never won anything of interest and had to go through a tournament at a holiday camp to even start at Sheffield. The max bet Hills allowed was £75.00 ew.

    I went into a Hills shop on tuesday before the race to check some results and the manager I know asked me if I knew about this massive plunge on Fade To Grey I said I had heard about it on betfair forum. I was told there had been a ‘security message’ that the max anyone could have was £100 ew. Had a £50 ew just out of interest.

    Cant speak of VC but I have had a Sunderlands account in the past and they also restrict bets. I wanted the Pipe horse Caspara with them at 11s for just £100 ew and was offered just half!

    Question is how can Hills take a £750 ew @50/1 from one person yet turn away a £600 win @4s from another who is actually not winning from them at present?

    #135879
    Friggo
    Member
    • Total Posts 1593

    Simple answer- no.

    Hills staff would have to refer anything more than £40 at 50’s (£2000 liability limit), so I don’t think there’s much chance anybody getting £750 e/w on.

    #135881
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    Why then do Hills not refute this claim or do they wish to be seen as the firm to go to when one wants a massive bet on something when in fact they are just as bad as the rest of them?

    #135883
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    Any chance that the bets were spread around various offices?

    #135888
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    DJ
    They stated that ‘We were on the phones at 11.am as soon as the bookies opened their prices’.

    As soon as the first call was made you can bet your life the ‘word was out’

    I cant believe they dont refer to betfair prices and after the ‘morning onslaught on betfair’ as the Racing Post descibed it was trading half those odds by 11 am.

    #135889
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    He phoned in a bet for £600 @4/1. The telephone operator had to refer it to a supervisor who asked him if he thought it would win!”

    Don’t you just love their naivete? :lol:

    #135894
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    DJ
    They stated that ‘We were on the phones at 11.am as soon as the bookies opened their prices’.

    As soon as the first call was made you can bet your life the ‘word was out’

    I cant believe they dont refer to betfair prices and after the ‘morning onslaught on betfair’ as the Racing Post descibed it was trading half those odds by 11 am.

    They wouldn’t get that bet on in Hills call centre Seagull. The liability levels are quite high but unless they have 20 accounts putting £15ew on or whatever it works out at they wouldn’t be able to back it with Hills.

    Without knowing how the market/book looked I’d say they’d get £100ew max with Hills.

    #135911
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    DJ
    They stated that ‘We were on the phones at 11.am as soon as the bookies opened their prices’.

    As soon as the first call was made you can bet your life the ‘word was out’

    I cant believe they dont refer to betfair prices and after the ‘morning onslaught on betfair’ as the Racing Post descibed it was trading half those odds by 11 am.

    They wouldn’t get that bet on in Hills call centre Seagull. The liability levels are quite high but unless they have 20 accounts putting £15ew on or whatever it works out at they wouldn’t be able to back it with Hills.

    Without knowing how the market/book looked I’d say they’d get £100ew max with Hills.

    Suppose this was their first ever bet on a new account? Most firms are happy to lay brand new clients a big bet ~ how else would they get the “high rollers” who produce so much of their profit? I have to say I’m a little sceptical about this particular coup, but the notion that it’s impossible for anyone to get a decent bet laid is wide of the mark.

    #135922
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    Fair point Rory – I was assuming he’d had the account a while etc. but if it was a new account then they’d probably at least try to accomodate them.

    #135928
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5706

    He phoned in a bet for £600 @4/1. The telephone operator had to refer it to a supervisor who asked him if he thought it would win!”

    Don’t you just love their naivete? :lol:

    Presumably, the answer went something along the lines of ‘Oh, no chance, I thought I’d donate £600 to your coffers!’

    #135937
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    Before the exchanges were ever thought of I was in a small group that used to get money on for Irish bookies such as Ross Brothers and Chronicle.
    They used to price every horse up in the morning and offer the prices on a fax service. This was used by some well connected owners and trainers.
    The idea was it allowed those ‘in the know’ to get on and to let the Irish firms add a bit for themselves and to get the money on over here without much trouble.
    It was run by a well known bookmaker over here and all we had to do was to hand over losing sllips or the winnings.
    Some of the horses went off at massive prices and were ones that often would be over readily dismissed by the majority of punters.
    The method worked in reverse as there were Irish horses they wanted backed over here but kept away from the general public.
    One day we were told to get £4,000 ew on a horse called Anhootisanowl running in Irelans and the max stake was to be £50.00 ew. One had to go to Croydon another of us went to Portsmouth and another to Southampton and another to shops around Brighton and Hove. In total over 80 shops were hit.
    That horse winning at 33/1 made more money than the one at Kempton this week.
    This week 9 years ago we got £4,000 on ew for them on a Pam Sly horse racing at Doncaster. We all met up at Plumpton races in the afternoon and waited for on course bookie who was ‘betting away’ to leave his pitch and had just £25.00 ew never took a price as we knew it was not going to be hit.
    When it came 2nd @50/1 his face was a delight!
    Those were the days!

    #135968
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Fade to Grey at Kempton on Tuesday is the race in question.

    Good luck to them if they got on the money they claimed but owners Bill Hinge and Gary Smallbone and assisted by a friend John Searchfield claim to have got £750 ew @50/1 with Hills, £500 ew with VC bet@ 50/1, £250 ew with Sunderlands @ 50/1, £300 ew @ 50/1 withTotesport and just £150 ew @66/1 with Camberley firm Edens.They also claimed to have had smaller wagers elsewhere.
    This horse was well supported on day on betfair from a starting point of 109/1 into 9/1.

    However a friend of mine last week wanted to back one of his greyhounds at the Stow. He has a credit account with Hills and a well known Greyhound owner mainly to owning former greyhound of the year Firehight Dan. He phoned in a bet for £600 @4/1. The telephone operator had to refer it to a supervisor who asked him he if thought it would win!
    When he said he thought it might he was given £300 @4s and the rest would have to be at S.P.
    The 4/1 was the first live show.
    This was a puppy race on a BAGS card.
    He had enough credit to allow him the full stake and is not in a profitable situation with them this year.

    When Shaun Murphy won the World snooker Hills had him at 150/1 as he had never won anything of interest and had to go through a tournament at a holiday camp to even start at Sheffield. The max bet Hills allowed was £75.00 ew.

    I went into a Hills shop on tuesday before the race to check some results and the manager I know asked me if I knew about this massive plunge on Fade To Grey I said I had heard about it on betfair forum. I was told there had been a ‘security message’ that the max anyone could have was £100 ew. Had a £50 ew just out of interest.

    Cant speak of VC but I have had a Sunderlands account in the past and they also restrict bets. I wanted the Pipe horse Caspara with them at 11s for just £100 ew and was offered just half!

    Question is how can Hills take a £750 ew @50/1 from one person yet turn away a £600 win @4s from another who is actually not winning from them at present?

    The answer is very simple seagull. Example: Take Terry Ramsden for instance, he could get any amount on any horse he wanted at any price… Reason: Big Loser

    Hills Ladbrokes they are all the same.If you are a known loser they will lay you anything.

    If however you are a winner: Example: Without mentioning amounts other than to say larger than the above: I walked into Ladbrokes and asked for 6/1 about a horse my friend was riding…………..they refused me bet due to the fact they knew it was more than coincidence I had hit them hard 4 or 5 times in a row……….the old ding dong went before I left the shop…."Price change"….I swear on my kids lives they cut the horse to 6/4 fav and they never laid it for a penny as no one esle knew the strength of it…….I manged to get half my bet on elsewhere but everyone had cut the price within an hour……You have to realize that bookmaking has changed drastically and they are no longer bookmakers they are accountants and are not in the business of losing money…..The other problem they have with shop punters in the know is that the staff can’t keep their mouths shut and when a face has a bet the whole world knows………they simply don’t want to deal with winners.

    #135974
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    FOF – there aren’t all that many "faces" who bet in betting shops – most will just lay the bets and think no more of it. The big firms don’t even take all their shops into consideration when they consider how much they’re standing a horse for.

    They’ll take all the phone bets, all the online bets and 20% of the shop bets plus all the notified ones – ie. over £1,000 at less than 4/1 or £100+ at 33/1 or FS etc.

    Would you want to deal with winners though FOF? – most of these firms are PLC’s and as such have responsibilities to shareholders to make as much money as possible, if that means shutting down/restricting those who consistenly win money then that’s just good business sense.

    We had a punter in the shop I used to work in who kept telling me he was deliberately backing losers in our shop and other shops as it was "a game of cat and mouse" with the bookmakers and you couldn’t back too many winners. Wouldn’t have minded so much if he didn’t tell me he’d had a £400 win bet at the shop "in the village" ie. town when he knew full well I went out every Saturday night with the girls from there anyway.

    FWIW his bet was always £24 win and £8 place or in that sort of ratio/figure.

    #135987
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    I very seldom did but sometimes you have no choice……during that period I was running a business and couldn’t go racing as much as did later in life….just got a name for myself and was probably my own worst enemy.

    No one in there right mind wants to deal with winners……..If I was a bookie and someone I knew was connected asked for 5 or 6k on a horse I would lay them 100 quid and stick a grand on it myself :lol:

    My experience of the big shops is that anything took x amount out of the ring it had to be phoned in……….I would think if someone is going to take out 30 to 50K they think about it ok and many many times I was offered so much at x price and the rest at SP….sometimes it was bordering on stupid and they were only offering me 1/10th of my stake….but I would take the price and go look somewhere else………..luckily that period never lasted long and I found new ways of getting cash on without much fuss even off course….Never once did I experience the same problems on course as you get to know the right bookies…some in fact will take the lot of you and make money doing it when your horse wins.

    #136005
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    At least there were no claims of Skybet being involved in the gamble – every time I see their smug PR man it reminds me of how they wouldn’t let me have 60 pounds on a 16/1 shot ante-post for one of the Festival handicaps.

    I find it hard to believe that any of the big firms would lay a horse to lose that much to a first-time caller.

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