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I’m surprised there doesn’t appear to have been a discussion regarding the void race at Epsom last Monday. Taurus Twins broke the gate and the starter called a false start.
I watched replay again today and it’s notable how quick the flag man disappeared from his post. I contrast this with a recent experience at Lysa Nad Labem in the Czech Republic where the flag man stood in front waving his flag until the horses had virtually reached him.
There was some mention that the jockeys had trouble with ‘poor visibility’. If it was genuinely that bad should they have been racing? By the same token, what happens when it’s foggy since visibility would surely be a good deal worse?
Rob
The jockeys claim they didn’t see the flagman. I don’t believe it for a second. If you watch the replay one jockey clearly looks round to see if the other jockeys are pulling up, but they all decide to carry on.
The flagman wasn’t directly in front of the runners, but he was waving a large luminous yellow flag – it was seen and ignored.
Apparently the flagmen should have blown a whistle at the same time, but didn’t, so the jockeys escaped punishment on a technicality. The stewards couldn’t prove the jockeys saw the flag so couldn’t dish out any penalties.
To be fair it would have been near impossible to pull the horses up and any re-run would have been a farce with most of the field being disqualified or withdrawn.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
According to the Racing Post only Hanagan admitted seeing the flag.
It was basically then a choice between banning the jocks for ten days (including the St Leger and other important races) or blaming the ‘faceless’ officials. The result as expected an absolute cop out. It appears rules don’t matter and these days the jocks can do no wrong.
It was all down to incompetent officialdom.
1 The Starter – It should not have been called a false start, there are races every day of the week were stalls open before others. Why aren’t they all called false starts? What was so special about this one?
As the stall must have opened after the starter pressed the button what was the problem? Nothing wrong with a horse getting a fast start.2 The Flagman – Was stood in totally the wrong position and only waved his flag while wandering off.
Something I’ve not heard mentioned was if some of the runners had decided not to run on the stands side but to go further across the course, the flagman would have been in their way. It’s not up to a flagman to presume where riders are going to go.He should have been stood 4 or 5 stalls out from the stands rail directly in front of the runners, waved his flag and then gone under the rail.
3 The Director of raceday operations and regulations – For not making sure the above 2 were sufficiently trained to do their jobs properly.
It was all down to incompetent officialdom.
1 The Starter – It should not have been called a false start, there are races every day of the week were stalls open before others. Why aren’t they all called false starts? What was so special about this one?
As the stall must have opened after the starter pressed the button what was the problem? Nothing wrong with a horse getting a fast start.Where is your evidence to support this ? The enquiry reports that the horse anticipated the start and broke through the gates on his stall. In fact the horse now has to have a stalls test. A stall can be opened before the starter presses his button. This wasn’t a ‘fast’ start it was a case of a horse going before the signal was given therefore, a false start. Correct decision by the starter. Can you give us these daily examples of where some stalls open before others ? In any case this wasn’t an issue of one stall opening before the others, the horse broke through the gates.
Where is your evidence to support this ? The enquiry reports that the horse anticipated the start and broke through the gates on his stall. In fact the horse now has to have a stalls test. A stall can be opened before the starter presses his button. This wasn’t a ‘fast’ start it was a case of a horse going before the signal was given therefore, a false start. Correct decision by the starter. Can you give us these daily examples of where some stalls open before others ? In any case this wasn’t an issue of one stall opening before the others, the horse broke through the gates.
If the horse broke through the stalls before the starter pressed his button then why did he proceed to open the rest of them?
If a horse breaks through the stalls surely it is better not to open the rest, withdraw the horse that has broken through and run the race.
You can’t watch much racing Ken, stalls fractionally open before others all the time, it can’t be helped if a horse is putting pressure on one when the starter releases them.
It is a mechanism of the stalls and cannot be avoided, nothing wrong with a horse getting a flying start.They don’t recall them in athletics if the runner is quick off his blocks when the starter fires his gun.
I fail to understand why the race requires to be made void, denying punters of their cash, owners, trainers and jockeys their share of the winnings and the levy board their much needed income.
Surely it would be a better solution for the rules to allow, in this case, Taurus Twins, to be declared a non runner/withdrawn with all stakes refunded on him and all other bets to stand subject to any applicable Rule 4 depending on the price of the horse which has caused the false start.
That way nobody loses out and it is fair on everybody. Seems so logical I cannot understand why it does not happen.
Where is your evidence to support this ? The enquiry reports that the horse anticipated the start and broke through the gates on his stall. In fact the horse now has to have a stalls test. A stall can be opened before the starter presses his button. This wasn’t a ‘fast’ start it was a case of a horse going before the signal was given therefore, a false start. Correct decision by the starter. Can you give us these daily examples of where some stalls open before others ? In any case this wasn’t an issue of one stall opening before the others, the horse broke through the gates.
If the horse broke through the stalls before the starter pressed his button then why did he proceed to open the rest of them?
If a horse breaks through the stalls surely it is better not to open the rest, withdraw the horse that has broken through and run the race.You can’t watch much racing Ken, stalls fractionally open before others all the time, it can’t be helped if a horse is putting pressure on one when the starter releases them.
It is a mechanism of the stalls and cannot be avoided, nothing wrong with a horse getting a flying start.
They don’t recall them in athletics if the runner is quick off his blocks when the starter fires his gun.
It seems you are determined to cast blame about to officials. I notice you don’t say anything about the jockey who admitted seeing the flag.It seems there may be some blame on the flagman, but not the starter, and how you can blame Jamie Steir for not ensuring they were trained properly beggars belief. These people may have been given perfectly good training. Even if there may be fault with one of them it doesn’t mean they weren’t trained properly. In all walks of live people are trained properly to do their job but still make mistakes.On a similar subject did they ever provide a report of the void race at Ludlow earlier this year?
On a similar subject did they ever provide a report of the void race at Ludlow earlier this year?
I think the flagman was quietly taken away and shot for that one.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
KenH,
I don’t keep a record of all the races and I’ve neither the time or inclination to trawl through videos for your benefit.
I’ve seen enough races over the years to know there have been many far worse cases of horses bursting out the stalls and no action taken by the starter, I’ve even seen cases of stalls half opening and a horse only recently got his nose trapped in the grills at the front of the stalls, again no action was taken by the starter.
The difference in time of the stall opening at Epsom was insignificant and I suspect the starter would be in for a bollocking, behind closed doors of course.
George Baker who of course has a vested interest has been through the race frame by frame, something neither me or you have done and he states all the evidence points to a perfectly fair start something which I concur with.
As for the jockey seeing the flag, he admits this but was unable to pull up, is that not good enough for you?
Regards the flagman, of course he could make a mistake blowing his whistle but any Tom, Dick or Harry could see he was positioned in the wrong place in the first place, he should have been directly in front of the runners not in the middle of the track were there were no runners in front of him.
Jamie Stier was at Epsom and should have seen that and ensured the flagman was correctly positioned. It was after all the flagman’s first time at Epsom.
KenH,
George Baker who of course has a vested interest has been through the race frame by frame, something neither me or you have done and he states all the evidence points to a perfectly fair start something which I concur with.
As for the jockey seeing the flag, he admits this but was unable to pull up, is that not good enough for you?
Yes, George Baker has a vested interest. He is trying to get compensation. How much do you think he would get by blaming the jockeys?
Do you really think Hanagan made any attempt to pull that horse up?
KenH,
I don’t keep a record of all the races and I’ve neither the time or inclination to trawl through videos for your benefit.
I’ve seen enough races over the years to know there have been many far worse cases of horses bursting out the stalls and no action taken by the starter, I’ve even seen cases of stalls half opening and a horse only recently got his nose trapped in the grills at the front of the stalls, again no action was taken by the starter.
The difference in time of the stall opening at Epsom was insignificant and I suspect the starter would be in for a bollocking, behind closed doors of course.
George Baker who of course has a vested interest has been through the race frame by frame, something neither me or you have done and he states all the evidence points to a perfectly fair start something which I concur with.
As for the jockey seeing the flag, he admits this but was unable to pull up, is that not good enough for you?
Regards the flagman, of course he could make a mistake blowing his whistle but any Tom, Dick or Harry could see he was positioned in the wrong place in the first place, he should have been directly in front of the runners not in the middle of the track were there were no runners in front of him.
Jamie Stier was at Epsom and should have seen that and ensured the flagman was correctly positioned. It was after all the flagman’s first time at Epsom.
Well you must have seen another race to me. I have watched the replay and when the race started the flagman was in front of the stalls in front of the runners and so correctly positioned. It was when the race started and it was clear where the runners were going he ran of to the right.It looked to me that he then saw the starter had signified a false start and then started to wave his flag. It even looks like when he waved his flag he was he was still in front of the stalls but just on the edge. Yes, maybe he should have held his position a little longer and blown his whistle but what Jamie Steir was supposed to have done about that from half a mile away is beyond my comprehension. It seems to me you are anxious to blame just about anybody in a capacity as an official. Maybe Paul Bittar was watching the race in Australia, if so he should have jumped on a plane to put everything right. originally you blamed Steir for not ensuring everyone was trained now it seems it because he didn’t do anything in a split second from over half a mile away.
You seem keen to accept what George baker has said but ignore the fact that after an enquiry the stewards concluded that, after interviewing the starter and no doubt watching several replays, that the horse broke through the stalls.
You say it doesn’t matter if one stall opens before the other and a horse gets a flyer. If that is the case what is the point of having starting stalls ? I have again watched the race and it is quite clear that one set of gates opened before the others and the horse got a flyer. Therefore the starter was absolutely right in calling a false start. In fact he did a remarkable job in spotting it and reacting straight away with resorting to watching a replay. well done him.
You seem keen to accept what George baker has said but ignore the fact that after an enquiry the stewards concluded that, after interviewing the starter and no doubt watching several replays, that the horse broke through the stalls.
You say it doesn’t matter if one stall opens before the other and a horse gets a flyer. If that is the case what is the point of having starting stalls ? I have again watched the race and it is quite clear that one set of gates opened before the others and the horse got a flyer. Therefore the starter was absolutely right in calling a false start. In fact he did a remarkable job in spotting it and reacting straight away with resorting to watching a replay. well done him.
Exactly the same thing occurred today with Escarlata Rossa in the 2.50 at Brighton today, funnily enough the same starter who called the false start at Epsom was on duty at Brighton yet no false start was called. The race was also not voided by the stewards.
If you consider they did the correct thing at Epsom how do you explain them not doing exactly the same at Brighton?
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