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Sam was niggling him from the start and clearly not the horse he was. Last season Madison wouldnt have got near him but well done to him today.
Just pleased that Denman appears to be ok and not sure where they go with him from here. Almost seems as if Denman is looking after himself and not prepared to put 100% in. Dont blame him and I would be the same after a heart problem!
My pre race concerns ( sadly) came to fruition. In my opinion, Denman was not suited by the course and I very much doubt whether he would have won had he stayed on his feet.
He is clearly not the horse he was. Glad he got up straightaway.
Big galoot might watch where he’s going next time
I’m glad he’s ok.That’s a bit contradictory "H" Surely if he wasn’t suited by the course that is a fair excuse. I only heard the race but if it was going to be close surely he would have beaten Exotic Dancer again? I would say I got it wrong and you got it right.
Looking back at Kempton that horse of Pipes was absolutely tunning away with his jockey and is obviously a totally different animal on these types of tracks.
Denman had a setback but ran an incredible race in the Gold Cup and let’s face it Denman 2008 wouldn’t have lived with Kauto Star 2009 in most people opinions.
I thought he looked as good as ever at Cheltenham despite the setback and he’s left 2 good horses for dead depite losing.
Given time I’m sure the old Denman will be right there fighting fit next season. Given adverse conditions that blunt Kauto’s finishing speed he could well win it again.
We went through all this with Kauto Star and he returned to the form that saw him win his 2nd King George. Some might say he was even better in the Gold Cup.
This is not Kicking King or War of Attrition who had major setbacks. Denman has been showing the old sparkle at home and has only missed half a season.
A good holiday and hell be back fighting fit next season IMO and you are away to quick to writing him off.
I don’t think Denman would have beaten Exotic Dancer today. He was tiring when he fell while Exotic Dancer stayed on quite well up the run in, just not as well as Madison du Berlais. Denman would have been 3rd though.
Why are people saying Denman is not the horse he was?
Prior to his Gold Cup win Denman had NEVER run in a race as good as todays. Yes he was superb in the Gold Cup but they were conditions that played to his strengths. A track like Aintree was never going to suit him as well as Cheltenham does. I haven’t looked into it but I’d be willing to bet that Denman today would’ve run to a mark somewhere near to his best IF you take away last years Gold Cup. I don’t think its fair to say he’s not the horse he was judge him when he has conditions to suit. He was never really going today everything was just happening a bit quick for him.
Exotic Dancer ran his usual good race but didn’t settle great and didn’t jump great. Madison Du Berlais on a flat track at this trip is clearly a very, very good horse.
Beats the hell out of me Ian. As far as I’m concerned I got it wrong as I just said to "H".
If I had said he wasn’t the same horse after he ran at Kempton I would be saying how wrong I was after that superb race he won in the Gold Cup.
I’m interested to see our friend saying Sam was niggling him from the start. Would you agree with that or was Sam deliberatly takin his time IYO?
Fist, sadly the Tank is more of a tractor these days.
The horse of last season would have burned them all off, despite the inconvenience of the tight turns at Aintree. He would have shrugged MDB aside and takned on regardless. Not this year. The old sparkle and his assertive manner of racing just isn’t there anymore.
Anyone watching the race unflod and who backed Denman, would not have been confident of victory at any stage. He was running in snatches. I think MDB had his measure some way from home and would have pulled out enough to head Denman on the run in. Just my opinion.
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Why are people saying Denman is not the horse he was?
Prior to his Gold Cup win Denman had NEVER run in a race as good as todays. Yes he was superb in the Gold Cup but they were conditions that played to his strengths. A track like Aintree was never going to suit him as well as Cheltenham does. I haven’t looked into it but I’d be willing to bet that Denman today would’ve run to a mark somewhere near to his best IF you take away last years Gold Cup. I don’t think its fair to say he’s not the horse he was judge him when he has conditions to suit. He was never really going today everything was just happening a bit quick for him.
Exotic Dancer ran his usual good race but didn’t settle great and didn’t jump great. Madison Du Berlais on a flat track at this trip is clearly a very, very good horse.
Beats the hell out of me Ian. As far as I’m concerned I got it wrong as I just said to "H".
If I had said he wasn’t the same horse after he ran at Kempton I would be saying how wrong I was after that superb race he won in the Gold Cup.
I’m interested to see our friend saying Sam was niggling him from the start. Would you agree with that or was Sam deliberatly takin his time IYO?
I don’t think Denman was ever really going. Denman was too far off the pace early on for my liking but that wasn’t Sam’s fault the horse just wasn’t helping him either because he couldn’t or because he didn’t want to. If you look before the race Sam had to kick Denman in the belly to wake him up, maybe the horse is beginning to get his own ideas about what he wants to do? I personally think its a testament to Denman’s guts that he hung in there well enough to be in with a 50/50 chance when he fell two out.
Whether or not he’d have won I really don’t know I wouldn’t have liked to call it either way.
I don’t think Denman would have beaten Exotic Dancer today. He was tiring when he fell while Exotic Dancer stayed on quite well up the run in, just not as well as Madison du Berlais. Denman would have been 3rd though.
Interesting difference of opinions David.
It would seem Sam Thomas disagrees and is adamant Denman had plenty left was responding and would have won.
Can’t believe everything you read in the papers so I’ll wait and judge for myself when I see the race
Very sad to hear of the death of Exotic Dancer. Seems he had a heart attack after the race. My condolences to the connections.
A fantastic performance from the much improved Madison.
Great horse to watch. An enthusiastic character who jumps for fun and runs right to the line.
As for Denman, I said after Cheltenham that he would struggle to come back to his very best and you could see as early as the first circuit he wasn’t fancying it.
Denman was never going to improve drastically after the Gold Cup. I said at the time that was as good as he is nowadays.
Contrary to popular belief, the horse didn’t have an interrupted preperation for the Gold Cup after Kempton. His work / schooling was poor – that was it. He never missed any work and would’ve been put through the same routine had he been working well or not.
It was his work and apparent attitude that left connections dumbfounded and ‘drawing stumps’.
His head looked elsewhere at the start today, he ran in snatches and, in my opinion, never looked like getting the better of MDB, despite pressure form someway out.
His fall was that of a beaten horse – he met it on a decent stride, but just didn’t get high enough. Sam did nothing wrong. In truth, he did well to keep Denman interested and in contention.
Forget the anthropomorphisms, like any bully (I don’t mean that in a derogatory manner) perhaps ‘The Tank’ sulks when another horse fails to be intimidated by his presence and doesn’t shirk a fight.
I agree with the previous post that he would’ve struggled to hold on for second.
There’s a huge difference between Denman’s failure to recapture his old sparkle and Kauto’s poor showing in the Betfair, which resulted in much the same reaction from the racing public.
I said at the time that it was an overreaction and Kauto has duly won a King George and Cheltenham Gold Cup since.
Kauto wasn’t given a great ride that day and would’ve defeated Exotic Dancer by approx. the same distance he did twelve months earlier but for exiting. Paul Nicholls gave him plenty of time between races and the horse proved him correct by winning his next two starts.
On the other hand, Denman was apparently back to his best and showing the old signs at home, but didn’t produce it on the track.
He went into his Summer break last year with memories of that gruelling Gold Cup, now he’ll have to overcome this episode, which will clearly leave its mark, both physically and mentally.
He will have to be one tough cookie to come back to his very, very best.
Whilst not discounting the possibility of Denman not being as good as before his problems, to my eyes it seems like a genuine soft ground galloper running on ground a bit too lively for him.
He needs soft ground and a slower rhythm race.
Horses for courses chaps and every horse has his optimum conditions, no matter how good, these were not his optimum conditions.
…………..but that wasn’t Sam’s fault the horse just wasn’t helping him either because he couldn’t or because he didn’t want to. If you look before the race Sam had to kick Denman in the belly to wake him up, maybe the horse is beginning to get his own ideas about what he wants to do?
I’m pretty sure Ruby was quoted some time ago – possibly at the end of his novice season – as saying (and I’m paraphrasing a bit here); "It’s only a matter of time before he plants himself at the start".
I think he’s a much quirkier horse than people realize; doesn’t he plant himself on the gallops sometimes at home? and I’ve certainly seen him dive at fences before, but has always got away with it.
My pre race concerns ( sadly) came to fruition. In my opinion, Denman was not suited by the course and I very much doubt whether he would have won had he stayed on his feet.
He is clearly not the horse he was. Glad he got up straightaway.
I don’t think Denman’s defeat had anything to do with the course.
He was there at the 2nd last and had his chance, he just didn’t get high enough at the fence.
Personally, I do think MDB would have won anyway – but I’m not confident in saying that.
Let’s not go back to the argument of whether Denman had an interrupted preparation prior to the Gold Cup – most people agree he did.
If Denman turns up fit and well next March, he will still be the only danger to KS IMHO.
Sorry to hear about Exotic Dancer.
Zip
Struggling to make sense of some of the posts saying Denmans past his best. His best could still be yet to come IMO. For a horse to have the problems he’s had this past season, it’s an absolutely enormous effort to then finish second in a Gold Cup (a race which emptied him last year) and then on to Aintree to run as well as he did before falling.
I thought Paul Nicholls said last years GC took so much out of him, he was unlikely to run until xmas even before the heart problem became apparent. And that was after a perfect a preparation as you would want.
His comeback appearance was very disappointing in some peoples eyes…. but why? Ok, his jumping wasnt the best its been but that surely was always going to be a little rusty after going almost a year without racing wasn’t it?
If he can get a decent rest then have good prep for next years big races, whats to say he can’t improve on what he’s already done? He’s still young enough.
And just maybe it’s now time to start thinking Madison Du Berlais on a flat track is every bit as good, if not better than, dare I say it………Kauto Star!
Have those two ever met on a flat track btw. Not to my recollection.
And is there a price for MdB to win the King George yet? Could turn out to be an anti-post bet to savour.first and foremost the BBC "s commentary of the race was rubbish!
particularly the comments regarding the way Denman travelled throughout the race! Denman is not the same horse this year as to the horse he was
last year, he doesn"t travel anything like he used too, but what he showed
today was tenacity! Sam was at him from the start but at least Denman
responded to his urgings,on several occassions i thought he would start to drop back down the field where as he did the opposite, the Old Denman
never needed cajoling he powered round the course, this fellow worked his
way round and had he not made that unbelievable howler at the 2nd last i believe there would have been 1/2l between him and Madison at the line!Denmans problem this year has been the shape of his season as a result of his setback. He is patently better on softer ground and would have been finished for the season now had he not had a setback. I think he might just have been done for a bit of toe this year in all of his races.
Next years King George will be very interesting if MDB shows up in this form.
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