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Take the Yorkshire Cup.
A few of the usual suspects within half a point or so of each other on price. Then there’s Be Fabulous. Good French form, attractive price….but it’s yet another of Godolphin’s marquee " buys " and they usually flop. Now i realise this was a Godolphin horse whilst with Fabre, but it’s the move to their Newmarket stables which seems to turn stars into stinkers.
Al Zarooni – 6 turf winners so far.
Bin Suroor – 1 turf winner ( 4% )Frankie – 1 winning ride on turf ( 2% )
Imagine Chelsea in the relegation places.
They’re operation in this country has under performed massively in recent years.
Godolphin UK&IRE 2010-2011-2012
288-1577 = 18.26%
Return at BFSP +203.37 (before commission)
ROI% = +12.89%Same period – 61 pattern victories, 7 Group One victories, a couple of Classics.
shocking alright….
It cannot be the jockeys,they have the best in the land.It cannot be the horses,they buy and breed the best.It cannot be the trainer.Bin Suroor has trained many Group One and BC winners.So what is the problem? D***ed if I know.Could it be the shuffle?Only one way to find out.Spread the horses around and leave them with the same trainer until ready to retire ala Jim Bolger’s New Approach.After a couple of seasons reevaluate.That was how they started and it worked in the beginning.
Although we will never know the answer, it does beg the question as to whether Sheikh Mohammed would have been more succesful if he had left his horses within the care of the likes of Sir Henry, Sir Michael, Andre Fabre etc..
My own view is that he would have recouped far more by doing so and never starting the Godolphin operation.
I am grateful though that he has kept his blue bloods here to help to maintain the overall quality of racing.pocket talk indeed ….maiden winner yesterday ..Anomaly ….write this down , a good horse and a damn good maiden
you guys need to smell the coffee …the stats speak for themselves
Get a grip please
Ricky
While the "Boys in blue" have enjoyed considerable success, the most noticeable absence has been their colours in the winner’s enclosure after the Derby. It has been something the operation has targeted but been found wanting. It proves that you need luck above all else to own a Derby winner, perhaps someone should have told them of the Gypsy curse on "Blue" in the 19th century!
It cannot be the jockeys,they have the best in the land.It cannot be the horses,they buy and breed the best.It cannot be the trainer.Bin Suroor has trained many Group One and BC winners.So what is the problem? D***ed if I know.Could it be the shuffle?Only one way to find out.Spread the horses around and leave them with the same trainer until ready to retire ala Jim Bolger’s New Approach.After a couple of seasons reevaluate.That was how they started and it worked in the beginning.
The example of Bolger’s is incorrect: The horse was purchased from him, it wasn’t sent to him.
For Godolphin to start really firing I think it needs to use Coolmore stallions. Juddmonte and Coolmore use each others with great success.
Saeed Bin Suroor has a fantastic record.
Trainer Trained For Godolphin Since Individual Horses Races Wins Strike Rate: % wins to races
Saeed bin Suroor 1995 1,463 6,540 1,509 23%
Mahmood Al Zarooni 2010 277 931 163 18%
Andre Fabre 2009 56 177 36 20%
Kiaran McLaughlin 1995 22 70 11 16%
Tom Albertrani 2003 12 29 3 10%
Peter Snowden 2012 2 2 – –23% wins from 6,540 runners is exceptional.
2011 (15%) was his lowest strike rate in the UK since taking the license and he’s started this year at a similar level.
But, as these and Cav’s stats illustrate, the operation have had fantastic success and there is nothing really in the stats to suggest that any other trainer, or group of trainers, would have fared any better with the same group of horses.
imo dettori will be retiring very very soon. im putting my money on fallon to be the next stable jockey.
backing the godolphin horses is very challenging to me, especially bin suroor. they are known for their second strings winning, which can be compared to richard hannon for example. the amount of times i have seen moore beat hughes on a second string!
one thing i have noticed about the godolphin team is that they are very very good at getting the horses to win their first race. this is a similar occurance with the aob team. however, a lot of these horses end up high price pacemakers, with so much to promise on breeding standards, which is a shame i guess.
tarantula_123.
Hi Black Sam,You misunderstood me or I failed to communicate.I meant to say they left the horse with Jim after they acquired him,unlike most purchases from other stables.Normally they buy and die!!!
PS don’t misunderstand me again.Metaphorical death.Del Boy, Ballydoyle don’t mind losing their first race."They will come on from that race" is typical Aidan speak after losing their initial race.
Hi Black Sam,You misunderstood me or I failed to communicate.I meant to say they left the horse with Jim after they acquired him,unlike most purchases from other stables.Normally they buy and die!!!
PS don’t misunderstand me again.Metaphorical death.Sorry andy, a true point though. Can’t really remember many horses going to Godolphin and improving though I’m sure there are of course.
What do you mean by your PS?
Del Boy, Ballydoyle don’t mind losing their first race."They will come on from that race" is typical Aidan speak after losing their initial race.
I wouldn’t be too worried about them being beaten first time out either. I read a few weeks ago that all of O’Brien’s 1000 Guineas winners have been beaten first time out, an interesting trend
Godolphin UK&IRE 2010-2011-2012
288-1577 = 18.26%
Return at BFSP +203.37 (before commission)
ROI% = +12.89%Same period – 61 pattern victories, 7 Group One victories, a couple of Classics.
shocking alright….
18% last 5 years, loss of -£288 for £1 stake.
Suroor has won £6m in prize money in this country. During the same period, with far fewer runners ( 25% ), O’Brien has won £12m.
Some of their horses that cost 7 figures have run in midweek maidens
Newmarket and Newbury on today – how many winners or placed horses ?
O’Brien is 18.64% -537.65 in the last 5 years. Even taking Irish overrounds into account its hardly better is it?
You cannot compare O’Brien’s operation in the UK where only his
best
horses compete, to Godolphin, where
all
of their horses compete. In addition the ethos of Godolphin is far more biased towards competing on a sporting basis at a level suitable for the particular horse concerned, rather than the almost entirely stallion/broodmare making operation that Ballydoyle run. Sheikh Hamdan’s (son) horses are running in northern handicaps every day of the week ffs. You need to make that distinction between operations before comparing them. Have you compared O’Brien’s return to Sir Henry’s over the same period? Does that make Sir Henry crap as well?
Whats your problem with midweek maidens?
Newbury and Newmarket yesterday….stable going through lean spell shocker. Sir Michael?
But above all what draws me to Godolphin over Ballydoyle is their approach to the sport. Their free channel that gives me live RUK/ATR every day of the flat season, every big global meeting live. The website with all of the free Timeform stuff and news that informs. The openness of the racing manager, their willingness to share and promote this great sport with us, the people who follow it.
Contrast that to the definitely-maybe, po-faced grinders. Men in sunglasses, churchyard huddled, parochial.
Nah…Godolphin. Anyday.
All the figures for following big stables shows is that backing them blind is a potent weapon in the mug punter’s quest to donate their money to bookmakers.
The biggest problem that the Godolphin operation has is the development of their horses from 2 to 3. They do not seem able to prepare a runner for the 2000 Guineas or the Derby, despite having plenty of potential candidates going into the winter. Royal Ascot seems the earliest they are able to get their horses ready to compete. They have not really filled the void that David Loder left.
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