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Pierse Hurdle 2009

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  • #203197
    Avatar photoCav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4833

    What about Dancing Tornado at 14/1. Track and conditions to suit, consistent and genuine , stamina for a fast run 2m, in form, improved for the first time cheekpieces last time and carries less than the threshold 11 stone for this race.

    #203201
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Alpine Eagle (12/1) and Wanango (20/1) for me.

    #203240
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Well done JJ 3rd at 20/1 better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick :wink:

    #203258
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Btn a head by a boil-over – such is life? :roll:

    #203288
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Very unlucky mate his trainer must be sick as a parrot beaten by a no hoper at Cheltenham and again here.

    The joys of handicaps :cry:

    #203462
    Avatar photoGoldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    Fitrst time i’ve saw the Pierse hurdle. Much a do about nothing really. What was the ‘controversy’ with regards to weight ?

    #203493
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    It’s the ludicrous rule here in Ireland that if a top-weight doesn’t run in a handicap (I think above a certain value) that the weights are raised.
    This means that anyone backing Psycho even as late as Sunday morning would assume he was carrying 10-10, whereas he ended up with 11-4 after the defection of Newmill. It didn’t affect me as I got the race hopelessly wrong, but if I were a Psycho backer I’d be livid- this rule needs changing.

    #203511
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Though the rule is unfair in this case, it was brought in to alleviate another situation which was unfair in the first place; though turning it into a lottery with the trainer of the topweight having control of the balls is far from the ideal answer.
    Maybe the answer would be, when the topweight is withdrawn in such circumstances, make it obligatory to withdraw all horses from the same owner of trainer?

    #203539
    Aragorn
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    • Total Posts 2208

    Splurge ran a cracker.

    P’tit Fute won the pertemps qualifier takingly as well.

    #203541
    Avatar photoGoldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    It’s the ludicrous rule here in Ireland that if a top-weight doesn’t run in a handicap (I think above a certain value) that the weights are raised.
    This means that anyone backing Psycho even as late as Sunday morning would assume he was carrying 10-10, whereas he ended up with 11-4 after the defection of Newmill. It didn’t affect me as I got the race hopelessly wrong, but if I were a Psycho backer I’d be livid- this rule needs changing.

    I wouldn’t be best pleased if i’d backed him either. That’s a shitty rule.

    #203557
    Bulwark
    Member
    • Total Posts 3119

    The pace never looked as good as I would have expected for such a competetive handicap yesterday, and the finish seemed to favour those who were in the front half of the field.

    A good run from Splurge to come from the rear, but hard to know if he could follow up as conditions next time will be pretty different I would expect.

    A good run from Psycho and a good ride from Davy Russell, who cottoned on to the pace early on and brought him into the race gradually, only to IMO be done for toe in the closing stages. As long as he is not rated too highly for yesterday he looks to be a serious horse in handicap company.

    In terms of form, I would be leaning towards those that put in good performances from the rear, Dancing Tornado, Fen Game and Alpine Eagle all went well IMO.

    If any of those 3 turned out in the county hurdle at a decent price I would happily have a go on them, especially alpine eagle who ran well from the back and should love a better clip next time.

    #203574
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Though the rule is unfair in this case, it was brought in to alleviate another situation which was unfair in the first place; though turning it into a lottery with the trainer of the topweight having control of the balls is far from the ideal answer.
    Maybe the answer would be, when the topweight is withdrawn in such circumstances, make it obligatory to withdraw all horses from the same owner of trainer?

    I was delighted to see James Willoughby addressing this in the Post today. As he says, the question of a trainer deliberately manipulating the weights should be dealt with by severe sanctions against said trainer but the possibility of that kind of abuse is by far the lesser of two evils whereby punters don’t know on the morning of a race what the weights are in a handicap, a truly unsatisfactory state of affairs.

    #203588
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Not a bad idea from Reet but of course it would never work.

    Simply can’t go back to days of old on this one. Capt Ryan Price was a master at manipulating the handicap by entering a top weight with no intention of running him.

    The difference was his middle weighted horse would piss up most of the time as he was better off with half the field plus had a good racing weight. In this case there was no connection betwen Newmill and the winner so why all the hullabaloo?

    The rule was changed for good reason and works better the way it is IMO

    #203721
    Avatar photoyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3446

    Though the rule is unfair in this case, it was brought in to alleviate another situation which was unfair in the first place; though turning it into a lottery with the trainer of the topweight having control of the balls is far from the ideal answer.
    Maybe the answer would be, when the topweight is withdrawn in such circumstances, make it obligatory to withdraw all horses from the same owner of trainer?

    I was delighted to see James Willoughby addressing this in the Post today. As he says, the question of a trainer deliberately manipulating the weights should be dealt with by severe sanctions against said trainer but the possibility of that kind of abuse is by far the lesser of two evils whereby punters don’t know on the morning of a race what the weights are in a handicap, a truly unsatisfactory state of affairs.

    Why should any trainer or owner be punished if one of their other horses succumbs to a late injury? Would that be the solution in any case as even trainers and owners have friends who are also owners and trainers.
    In one of the big handicaps in Britain a few years ago a trainer famously did the neccessary for his ex assistant.
    The trouble with Willoughby’s solution is proving it, what trainer is going to hold his hands up and say "It’s a fair cop Guv"?
    It’s quite possible a lame horse could be declared.
    The Irish obviously favour prevention and I just favour it too.
    As has been said previously I’m amazed at the outcry over this compared to the silence over reserves which they have frequently over there and are far worse imo.

    #204391
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Of course you wouldn’t penalise the connections of a genuinely lame horse which was withdrawn, only if it were proved that the horse was sound and only declared for nefarious purposes. There is a precedent- Turf Club vets were sent to the yard of a horse taken out of the Thyestes Chase which allowed ante-post gamble Dun Doire to get a run. In that case they were satisfied the horse was lame. No reason they coudn’t inspect a late-withdrawn topweight. FWIW I agree completely about reserves, they’re an abomination. The need for them may well diminish anyway in the coming years as the depression reduces horse numbers.

    #204727
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    I had a letter in the Irish Field on this today if anyone’s interested.

    #205027
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    And in today’s Post!
    Nice to see Don McLean agrees with me in today’s Sunday Times (Irish edition)

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