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I agree with the hurdlers of the 70’s.
For staying chasers I think now is as good an era as I can remember – Kauto Star the best chaser since Dessie, Exotic Dancer who without Kauto would have won the King George and Gold Cup in the same season himself, Denman, My Way De Solzen, War Of Attrition ………… fantastic horses.
On the flat it has to be the early seventies Nijinsky, Mill Reef and the Brigadier how can you top that couple of years? The 80’s I also agree with – Shergar, Dancing Brave, El Gran Senor, Zilzal, Reference Point, Pebbles, Nashwan, Dayjur (was he 1990?), Miesque, Old Vic ………
Don’t think we’ve had an era as good as that since.
The golden period of hurdlers 77-79 seems to be at the top of everyone’s list. Add in The Minstrel, Alleged and Troy on the falt and those were three vintage years.
What about the years 1970 to 1972 though.
Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, Roberto. Will we ever see their like again in a three year window.1984 to 1986 was also good. El Gran Senor, Dawn Run, Slip Anchor, Pebbles, Dancing Brave, Bering, Commanche Run.
Going back a bit 1964-66 with Sea Bird and Arkle, arguably the two single greatest horses under each code, both around at the same time. Perhaps that qualifies those years as the pinnacle.
That list of horses that raced in 2000 catches the eye too. With top class Deby winners around in 2001 and 2002 and the emergence of Best Mate plus the great Istabraq that surely has to be the greatest three year period since the mid-80’s at least.
The thing with both Istabraq and Best Mate though Cormack is what did they beat? They had no real pretenders to their crown, no real challenge. Istabraq was beating horses like Theatreworld, French Holly horses that you would never back with any real confidence in any decent race. No disrespect to Istabraq but the quality of hurdlers around at the time was very, very average.
Best Mate beat Sir Rembrandt, Commanche Court and Truckers Tavern to win his Gold Cups not one of them would’ve troubled either Kauto Star or Exotic Dancer last season. The only horse with any real pretentions to him was Jair Du Cochet and alas he never had the opportunity.
Not golden years for me just one hurdler and one chaser that were good but the best of a mediocre bunch.
I expect a slating lol.
What was different about the manner of the Istabraq hat-trick when compared to the Best Mate hat-trick?
As usual Mr. Column has come up with some names to bring a lump to the throat, Greasepaint for one! I’d forgotten him. *sighs*
Of course Burrough Hill Lad winning the Gold Cup was my best memory in racing because I’d followed him from nothing, so it was the ultimate triumph.
Yes, Golden Fleece had the potential to become a legend. Sadly we were never to find out. It should also be noted that Eddery claims Dancing Brave to be the better of the two, when asked to compare them – but hey, it’s all about opinions.
I beg to differ Himself, Eddery said that Golden Fleece was potentially the best horse he has ever ridden, Dancing Brave having had more opportunities on the track to prove his greatness, and what about the great El Gran Senor.
Who can forget Golden Fleece’s electric turn of foot from nearly last to first in a matter of strides in what was then a record time apart from a horse called mahmoud who’s time was unofficial as it was hand timed back in the thirties. The Fleece seems to be a largely forgotten Derby winner by the masses because he was whipped off to stud so Sangster and Co could benefit from the ridiculous fees the Yanks were paying back then for potential top stallions, I would say with the utmost confidence that Golden Fleece would have had the likes of Slip Anchor, Reference point, Generous, Nashwan and the overrrated Shergar for breakfast.Re Golden Fleece – Absolutely. Eddery said he was potentially the best horse he ever rode as Marz says he just didn’t have the chance to prove it. I know I have the book.
If Eddery rates him above El Gran Senor and Dancing Brave Golden Fleece must have been a machine of a horse.
Being a relative youngster I had to investigate what all the fuss was about so I just watched the 1973 National on Youtube.
AWESOME. Poor Crisp, after the last fence I still couldn’t see Red Rum winning.
Anythin else I should watch out for?
Being a relative youngster I had to investigate what all the fuss was about so I just watched the 1973 National on Youtube.
AWESOME. Poor Crisp, after the last fence I still couldn’t see Red Rum winning.
Anythin else I should watch out for?
Sea Bird’s ‘ 65 Derby (only horse in living memeory to win race without coming off the bridle) & Arc wins (both on YouTube). In Black & white but still well worth the watch.
Also on YouTube, Nijinsky’s 1970 King George & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes saunter – where he made his five opponents look like selling platers.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Sea Bird’s ‘ 65 Derby (only horse in living memeory to win race without coming off the bridle) & Arc wins (both on YouTube). In Black & white but still well worth the watch.
Also on YouTube, Nijinsky’s 1970 King George & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes saunter – where he made his five opponents look like selling platers.
Quality Himself. Many thanx.
P.S In one of the Red Rum videos there’s a great shot of him and Dessie together. Anyone know where you can get a hold of not just this picture but other racing related works too?
Perhaps a naive question, but how do people know that these horses from yesteryear are so much better than ones from today?
What yardstick is used to measure their greatness: times, collateral form through the years?Perhaps, there is a chance that the horses of old were gliding past handicappers – of course I say that tongue in cheek – but I’d be interested to know what sets them apart. I would have thought that with evolution comes improvement. Apologies if this sounds like a strange question, I just really am curious.
I expect training, husbandry and veterinarian advances have resulted in horses today being fitter and therefore faster than ever.
I doubt that they’re bred to go any faster as I would suggest it’d take more than 4/5 generations for any significant, or even marginal, difference to be apparent in the breed in respect of latent ability.
Yep the Arkle, Brigadier Gerard, Night Nurse, Dessie eras were golden times indeed and no one can surely doubt their standing at the pinnacle of equine performance; ’tis all in black and white in the form book
At a personal, visceral level I have particularly fond memories of that period in the late 70s early 80s which saw a succession of memorable Flat stayers: Exceller, Buckskin, Sagaro, Le Moss and Ardross. The battles between the latter two remain particularly vivid.
The tendency to view the past through rose-tinted spectacles increases as that past grows ever more distant so it’s as well to mention that I believe the happy coincident arrival of three top class chasers in Moscow Flyer, Azertyuiop and Well Chief has been as memorable as anything ‘way back when’ and those young today will be reminiscing fondly about them when old.
1984 to 1986 was also good. El Gran Senor, Dawn Run, Slip Anchor, Pebbles, Dancing Brave, Bering, Commanche Run.
Can’t believe you left out Oh So Sharp!
I could have written Mikky’s page 1 post, so I can only echo what he says (Mike, are you the brother I never knew I had?
)And was Habibti still runing in ’84? Plus Teenoso. And Last Tycoon.
I’ll go get my Timeform annuals out.
This thread has really got me thinking (now, there’s a change)
The 80s produced many memorable races and horses.
Sea Pigeon’s Champion hurdle of 81. Francome at his best. Little Owl, who, like Sea Pigeon, I backed ante-post, ridden by amateur, Jim Wilson, winning the Gold Cup from Night Nurse and Silver Buck at the same meeting. Then Aldaniti (I got 20s a few weeks before the race) with Bob Champion out gunning John Thorne on Spartan Missile.
and who can forget the Cheltenahm Gold Cup of ‘ 83. The Dickinson 5. I backed Siver Buck to repeat his victory of the previous year but Bregawn proved too good.
My favourite two mile chaser, who hardly ever gets a mention these days – Badsworth Boy. Triple winner (83, 84, 85) of the Queen Mother Champion Chase. He would have picked the likes of Viking Flagship and Moscow Flyer and carried them both up the Cheltenham hill – imo.
Dawn Run’s CH and GC successes – 84 – 86
Pebbles! Sharpo! Moorestyle!
… and many, many more.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Some more from the 84- 86 alumni.
Al Bahathri !
Shadeed !!
Shardari
Theatrical
Triptych !!!
Sagace !!!!!
Never So Bold
Strawberry Road
Midway Lady
Green Desert
Sonic Lady
Darshaan
Katies
Tolomeo
Reference Point
Trempolino
Indian Skimmer !!!
Miesque
Ajdal
Soviet Star
Acatenango
Mtoto
Royal GaitAdd that to the earlier list and surely, on the flat at least, the 1984-86 vintage must take a bit of beating for strength in depth.
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