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Minsk stayed 2 miles on the flat. He’ll be miles too slow for the Triumph.
Baby Mix, Ranjaan, Hinterland, Ut De Sivola, Vendor, Balder Success all French bred. Chuck ’em out.
Darroun trained by an Irishman, Minsk too. Chuck ’em out. (Nothing xenophobic against the Irish, they’re just useless in this race)
Hollow Tree won the Chepstow Grade 1. Chuck ‘im out.
Countrywide Flame will be too exposed. Chuck ‘im out.
Dildar or Grumeti at this stage. Prefer Dildar as Grumeti beat the horribly slow Ted Spread.
Couldn’t write off Baby Mix but not really for me. I was really impressed with Grumeti on his debut I thought he did it really well against older horses.
Dildar could be good but who knows I’m certainly not one for backing some flat thing who hasn’t jumped a hurdle. Judging by the price he went off in the Adonis I wouldn’t have thought they liked Zarkandar all that much at home last season. Brampour & Empire Levant were the talking horses but clearly both took their time to take to the NH game.Minsk stayed 2 miles on the flat. He’ll be miles too slow for the Triumph.
Baby Mix, Ranjaan, Hinterland, Ut De Sivola, Vendor, Balder Success all French bred. Chuck ’em out.
Darroun trained by an Irishman, Minsk too. Chuck ’em out. (Nothing xenophobic against the Irish, they’re just useless in this race)
Hollow Tree won the Chepstow Grade 1. Chuck ‘im out.
Countrywide Flame will be too exposed. Chuck ‘im out.
Dildar or Grumeti at this stage. Prefer Dildar as Grumeti beat the horribly slow Ted Spread.
What facts do you have to say that Minsk will be too slow,and I would hardly call a Group winner over 1m4f’Horribly Slow’ i know it was a couple of years ago but he was since 2nd nosed in a listed,and 4th in a G2 he was also 4th beaten 13L to a good henderson horse first time over hurdles.So you clearly dont know the horse,Grumeti hammered him just because hes simply better than Ted Spread not because hes Horendisly Slow you Muppet!!!
Most 2 milers on the flat don’t win Triumph or Champion Hurdles. I can’t think of any recent ones.
Zarkander ran over 1m7f but never won, he won over 1m4f , Soldatino 12f, Zaynar never won but raced over 14f, Celestial Halo 14f finshed 2nd, Katchit basically a 10f horse, Detroit City won at 14f.
Minsk has won over shorter so he may be an exception to the rule but it’s not something I would bet on at the moment.
Minsk stayed 2 miles on the flat. He’ll be miles too slow for the Triumph.
Baby Mix, Ranjaan, Hinterland, Ut De Sivola, Vendor, Balder Success all French bred. Chuck ’em out.
Darroun trained by an Irishman, Minsk too. Chuck ’em out. (Nothing xenophobic against the Irish, they’re just useless in this race)
Hollow Tree won the Chepstow Grade 1. Chuck ‘im out.
Countrywide Flame will be too exposed. Chuck ‘im out.
Dildar or Grumeti at this stage. Prefer Dildar as Grumeti beat the horribly slow Ted Spread.
What facts do you have to say that Minsk will be too slow?
He finished 8th and 6th on his 2 attempts over a mile in maidens and won his last start on the flat over 2 miles.
and I would hardly call a Group winner over 1m4f’Horribly Slow’ i know it was a couple of years ago but he was since 2nd nosed in a listed,and 4th in a G2 he was also 4th beaten 13L to a good henderson horse first time over hurdles.So you clearly dont know the horse,Grumeti hammered him just because hes simply better than Ted Spread not because hes Horendisly Slow you Muppet!!!
Well first of all it helps if you spell correctly immediately before you needlessly insult somebody.
Second of all clearly ‘you see but you do not observe’, to quote my favourite fictional detective whose show is currently showing on BBC1.
Ted Spread won a Chester Vase. The Chester Vase is a annual award which is awarded to the slowest 3yo in training. Unfortunately the headbob went the wrong way as the horse Ted Spread beat, Icon Dream, was actually the slowest 3yo in training as he ran in the Queen’s Vase next time out, finishing 10th. Last season he was seen running in the Chester Vase and Northumberland Plate.
Ted Spread went on to finish last in the St. Leger (Theology beat him by 30 lengths…). Since then he ran in Group company over 12 furlongs twice – he finished last and second last. He finished 17th in the Ebor last year.
On his hurdling debut over 2 miles he finished 4th. 4th. Dance Tempo has a flat rating of 81 and never ran over further than 12 furlongs on the flat. He beat Ted Spread by 8 lengths.
But if you want to go through your life kidding yourself that these utter slowboats are ‘quick’ horses, that’s fine by me, but just don’t start slagging me off and demanding facts when you can pull the exact same information as me from racingpost.com.
Detroit City – 2nd in a listed race over 15f before going jumping, won the Cesarewitch a year later.
Yes and Zarkandar ran over the same trip. Doesn’t mean Ted Spread’s not slow. I can crawl faster than he can gallop.
The Chester Vase is a annual award which is awarded to the slowest 3yo in training.
I dont know about you but I dont think the first and second here are.
http://www.irishracing.com/v5rhfinfo?pr … 1105051455And also what about your facts about Minsk????
Minsk I already commented on.
Nathaniel won the most farcical race ever, a pathetic slowly run 5-runner affair in which an 18-year-old was riding St. Nicholas Abbey for the first time, Workforce got injured and Rewilding died.
Treasure Beach ended up being used as a pacemaker in the Arc.
I think Ted Spread is snail-like, you think he’s rapid. Fine, move on.
Minsk I already commented on.
Nathaniel won the most farcical race ever, a pathetic slowly run 5-runner affair in which an 18-year-old was riding St. Nicholas Abbey for the first time, Workforce got injured and Rewilding died.
Treasure Beach ended up being used as a pacemaker in the Arc.
I think Ted Spread is snail-like, you think he’s rapid. Fine, move on.
There was me thinking Treasure Beach ended up running 3rd in the Canadian International, but I’m sure you’d never let facts get in the way of your sweeping generalizations.
Has there been a single decent winner of the Canadian International since Sulamani?
Whether Zarkava’s generalisations have that much merit here (He has taken the idea too far, a horse like Nathaniel has a good deal of speed) doesn’t really matter. It’s pretty obvious that Ted Spread isn’t a particularly fast horse.
Though using Ted Spread as justification for opposing Grumeti seems rather thin as an argument, considering he slaughtered him.
I’d be amazed if Grumeti wasn’t placed atleast in the Truimph to be honest. His stable nearly always have a high class Juvenile and he seems to be the #1 candidate in his yard. I’d expect him to win at the Trials personally and go there at a relatively short price. King’s other potential protagonists seem unlikely to contend, as both Balder Success and Vendor seem to be viewed as longer term prospects, and niether of them really match the criteria of a normal Triump winner or King Triumph contender.
Whether Zarkava’s generalisations have that much merit here (He has taken the idea too far, a horse like Nathaniel has a good deal of speed) doesn’t really matter. It’s pretty obvious that Ted Spread isn’t a particularly fast horse.
Though using Ted Spread as justification for opposing Grumeti seems rather thin as an argument, considering he slaughtered him.
Well Nathaniel is a 3/4 brother to several 2+ milers. Whether he has speed or not, irrelevant, but needed 12 furlongs to win a maiden and finished 5th in a poor Champion Stakes whilst getting weight.
As for slaughtering Ted Spread, don’t like your argument. Hazy Tom demolished Sea of Thunder the other month. Sea of Thunder would’ve then bolted up over 3 miles at Cheltenham in a Graded novice hurdle but for falling at the last. Consequently everybody fell over themselves trying to get on Hazy Tom for the Supreme before he got smashed by over 6 lengths a week later.
I don’t want to see fairly quick horses beating slow horses by 30 lengths. I want to see quick horses beating other quick horses by 5 lengths. That’s why you get all these horses on the flat winning maidens by 7 lengths and getting 16/1 quotes for the Guineas and Derby before they fall from grace as a 1/3 favourite in a Group race and then blend into obscurity.
Well Nathaniel is a 3/4 brother to several 2+ milers. Whether he has speed or not, irrelevant, but needed 12 furlongs to win a maiden and finished 5th in a poor Champion Stakes whilst getting weight.
As for slaughtering Ted Spread, don’t like your argument. Hazy Tom demolished Sea of Thunder the other month. Sea of Thunder would’ve then bolted up over 3 miles at Cheltenham in a Graded novice hurdle but for falling at the last. Consequently everybody fell over themselves trying to get on Hazy Tom for the Supreme before he got smashed by over 6 lengths a week later.
I don’t want to see fairly quick horses beating slow horses by 30 lengths. I want to see quick horses beating other quick horses by 5 lengths. That’s why you get all these horses on the flat winning maidens by 7 lengths and getting 16/1 quotes for the Guineas and Derby before they fall from grace as a 1/3 favourite in a Group race and then blend into obscurity.
Finishing 5th in a poor champion stakes relates to speed. You are trying to distinguish Nathaniel’s speed (which is very very very high in relation to nearly all other race horses) against what we may define as exceptional or elite (I.e the clearly defined best within a division). So if we are discussing Nathaniel in relation to the fastest horses we’ve seen in the last ten years ; he doesn’t fair well. But we aren’t discussing this. We are discussing the speed of an unrelated Chester Vase winner going hurdling to a Group one winning horse. Finishing 5th in a Champion stakes is a million million miles above anything Ted Spread has ever achieved. This is a thread about Triumph Hurdle horses. Nathaniel would absolutely molest this field if we compare speed ability. I understand your point to a degree, but it’s far too exaggerated to have any relevant meaning.
I am not arguing that Grumeti should be a serious contender on the basis that he beat Ted Spread. In reverse, i am merely stating that arguing against Grumeti because he destroyed Ted Spread is illogical. You and i both no Ted Spread isn’t going to be a high class 2 Mile Hurdler. Im not however going to make negative assumptions on another horse’s ability because he anniliated Ted Spread. The form isn’t currently worth a great deal ; that doesn’t mean there wasn’t substance to the performance.
Whatever opinion one may have on Ted Spread should hardly relate to the opinion one has on Grumeti considering the ease of his victory.
I didn’t realise this was the Chester Vase thread & why is everyone talking about Nathaniel?
I think Grumeti should be out next week hopefully at Newbury. Should give him another chance to show his ability over hurdles & where he is among the juveniles.
While I think a horse clearly has to show some decent ability on the flat I do think jumping is a totally different game. I mean the star that is Istabraq was nothing special on the flat and he ran over staying distances but he certainly showed plenty of toe over hurdles. Please don’t drag me into the Ted Spread debate though because I don’t particularly rate him very highly.
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