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Quote: from jackane24 on 11:40 pm on May 8, 2006[br]Ah you know what I mean about Scorpion.
No, what do you mean?
I love the Derby as well and it usually produces a 3 year old that will be among the top 3 years olds for the year. Even motivator ran pretty well after that last year in the eclipse and the Irish champion stakes. Of course there have been a few duds. But Holding court and Blue canari were hardly the greatest advertisments for the Prix du Jockey Club either.
SHL
Not many truely ordinary horses win the Derby. I was at the French derby two years ago when they all finished in a heap and the distinctly un-wonderful Blue Canari (i think) won
And thats a very fair course. There the style of racing and pace of race struck me as a bigger problem than epsoms quirks. And come to think of it, the draw bias in Kentucky is to me, an even bigger issue
<br>Worth remembering that the date for the Derby was set early for very good reasons, although those reasons no longer apply.
Throughout the 19th century and at least until 1914, Epsom didn’t stage any meetings after the Derby and Ascot didn’t stage any after the Royal meeting. That was because the tracks had no watering system and the trainers had no artifical surfaces on the gallops at home.
The classics were set in April, June and September to avoid the hard ground that was normal in mid summer.
Personally I’d favour moving the race back, particularly to allow for the inclusion of a Group 1 over 10F between the Guineas and the Derby, but I concede it’s never going to happen. It does remain ridiculous though that we have up to three options for 3-y-olds over 1M (Nmkt, Curragh, Ascot), but none over 10F. Changing the St James Palace and the Coronation Stakes to 10F would be an improvement in my view, but again, I know it’s never going to happen.
AP
Trackside i’m with you on Heliostatic. Jim Bolger was quoted as saying he’s the best horse he’s trained and considering what Alexander Goldrun has done thats a bit of a claim so i’ll be tucking into him each way for the Derby.
Flat races with one hurdle on the approach to the furlong marker. Now there’s an interesting idea.
Quote: from Grasshopper on 3:22 pm on May 9, 2006[br]
Quote: from cormack15 on 2:34 pm on May 9, 2006[br]Flat races with one hurdle on the approach to the furlong marker. Now there’s an interesting idea.
Agreed Corm. Not only would it make every Flat race around infinitely more interesting, think how many fascinating ‘hurdle placement bias’ debates it would generate.
Everyones a winner. :biggrin:
<br>And tell us. Would we have the hurdles up for the sprinters as well. Well I suppose Dajur would still have been a champ then….<br>I think we should lobby this. I can think of nothing more challenging then a five furlong dash around epsom over hurdles.
SHL
In recent years, only in 1995 and 2002 has the Derby relived it’s status of being a ‘great’ race. Most Derby winners have turned out to be lovers of this unique course and could not be described as anything more than good animals anywhere other than Epsom.<br>The Derby will never relive past days of glory as stud value now means more than achievement on the racecourse. Why risk your horse on the undulations of Epsom when the Irish Derby is so much easier on the horse? Winning the Epsom Derby is nice, but not what it used to be. The pure quality just doesn’t turn up there nowadays, instead being diverted to the Curragh or Ascot.
Trackside – there are around 200 Derby entries. I’ve listed about 12! I’d be suprised if even half of them made it! But that Emirates Skyline does look incredibly classy on paper. Frankie will probably turn him down to get on Palace Episode ;)
DB – Ok, Scorpion is trained in Ireland, but it’s roughly the same climate, same conditions, and he made his name in the UK, when winning the St Leger. You understand now!?
I thought Scorpion made his name when chasing home Hurricane Run in the Irish Derby, in ….. Ireland and when winning the Grand Prix de Paris at Longchamp, in….. France.
Which is more historic?
Edit – And if you asked any race goer to name one race that he is remembered for, they would say the St. Leger
(Edited by jackane24 at 7:07 pm on May 9, 2006)
Oh my God. The Republic of Ireland is next to the UK. It used to be part of Britain. It is in the same region as Britain. Is everybody happy now?
There’s no doubt that Sunday Silence’s progeny have tended to go better in Japan, Hong Kong, Austrailia, etc with Zenno Rob Roy, Deep Impact, etc But I think this one could be really special.
The Dam has also had progeny like Mutafaweq and Dimitrova, both Group 1 winners. The former over 12f and 14f (St Leger and BC Turf), and the latter in the Flower Bowl International Stakes over 10f.
As for the new pattern race – absolutely no idea.
(Edited by jackane24 at 9:52 pm on May 9, 2006)
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