- This topic has 81 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 18 years ago by
.
- Posts
The best way for you to understand the bounce factor is this:
If you have not done any serious physical exercise for a year say, then you go and have a game of 6 a side football for 1 hour. Your legs wont let you down in that first game back.
The next day and for about a week later your legs will be aching quite severely (assuming you didnt do stretches and a proper warm up).
Try and play football a week after your 1st game, you legs will be struggling.
This is because your leg muscles have been overstretched in that game and take time to recover.
If you dont believe in the bounce factor then you dont believe that horses have muscles in my opinion. As any muscles (arms -weightlifting etc) will be aching after exercise they are not used to.
- Total Posts 17716
If you dont believe in the bounce factor then you dont believe that horses have muscles in my opinion.
Zoso
That must rank as one of the daftest statements ever seen on a responsible forum, and is unlikely to engender any meaningful discussion
Do you seriously believe that racehorse trainers send horses from the sickbed straight to the races?
I’d accept Colin’s point about horses having hard races taking time to get over them, though that can happen with any horse, but to use the bounce factor as an excuse, (as someone on here recently did for VPU’s Tingle Creek defeat by Twist Magic) not only flies in the face of logic, but also puts a huge question mark against a trainers capabilities.
As Robert99 implied, if it cannot be predicted, how can anyone say with any degree of certainty that it exists at all, James Willoughby or anyone else?And how will the muscles feel on the third race ( or game), ie
after the "bounce"?I did physical work myself for years. In the latter years, injuries and age caught up with me, and, before that, my sporting days came to an end, for similar reasons.
About this bounce theory,perhaps, we should ask; why the long lay-off in the first place?
If, as seems likely, it was because of injury or illness, then, maybe we have our answer: the adrenalin and excitement in the first race back is enough to enable running though the " pain barrier", even if the wounds re-open.
Next race, we’re crocked again before we start. This time we can’t raise it.So,bounce.
Reet, you can still balance the fact that a horse is a candidate for the bounce into your thoughts about what would be a value price.
If you like it is another factor such a trip, going, course, jockey, trainer-form that have to be taken into account.
Along the lines of Willoughby’s thinking, you have to accept that any horse has a limit to his ability. If a horse puts in a best-ever performance there is a reasonable chance that it isn’t capable of running to that figure again, in the near future or indeed ever.
There will obviously be improvers but even these will eventually hit that limit.
Colin
If you dont believe in the bounce factor then you dont believe that horses have muscles in my opinion.
Zoso
That must rank as one of the daftest statements ever seen on a responsible forum, and is unlikely to engender any meaningful discussion
Do you seriously believe that racehorse trainers send horses from the sickbed straight to the races?
I’d accept Colin’s point about horses having hard races taking time to get over them, though that can happen with any horse, but to use the bounce factor as an excuse, (as someone on here recently did for VPU’s Tingle Creek defeat by Twist Magic) not only flies in the face of logic, but also puts a huge question mark against a trainers capabilities.
As Robert99 implied, if it cannot be predicted, how can anyone say with any degree of certainty that it exists at all, James Willoughby or anyone else?Of course racehorse trainers will have worked the horse before they appear on the track.
Have you ever heard of footballers talk about needing match fitness. They are fully fit but they lack match fitness, and they can only get that by playing a match.
Is it so ludicrous to suggest horses need ‘Race fitness’ also to get truly fit, regardless of what work they have been given by the trainer prior to racing.
Charlie
So are you inferring that there is never an instance where a horse runs a hard race after a lay-off, then runs poorly because it needed a longer rest before it’s next race?
You might not like the term but the effect most definitely occurs, and it can occur in many sports.
Rob
I voted No it’s a myth because this theory has so far remained unproven
If it exists – Prove it
I voted No it’s a myth because this theory has so far remained unproven
If it exists – Prove it
Go for a real hard run this evening Charlie D and do push yourself(assuming you dont normally do phsyical excercise), then come back tomorrow and tell us how your legs are feeling. Try and do exactly the same run tomorrow evening and let us know if you found it harder.
This will prove the bounce factor to yourself in the best possible way.
I voted No it’s a myth because this theory has so far remained unproven
If it exists – Prove it
Go for a real hard run this evening Charlie D and do push yourself(assuming you dont normally do phsyical excercise), then come back tomorrow and tell us how your legs are feeling. Try and do exactly the same run tomorrow evening and let us know if you found it harder.
This will prove the bounce factor to yourself in the best possible way.
That does not prove "bounce theory"
Oh it does. Most people including racing media simply dont understand what the ‘bounce factor’ actually is.
Lay off from injury doesn’t come into it.
Oh it does. Most people including racing media simply dont understand what the ‘bounce factor’ actually is.
Lay off from injury doesn’t come into it.
And you have no idea how something is proven
Oh it does. Most people including racing media simply dont understand what the ‘bounce factor’ actually is.
Lay off from injury doesn’t come into it.
And you have no idea how something is proven
Oh I do and I make plenty of money from either laying bounce horses or having e/w bets around bounce horses.
The bounce factor is about muscles, simple as that. Phone a physio up and talk about the use of muscles if you dont want to take my word for it.lt is a medical fact and thats a fact.
Im sure because you have more posts than me and I am a newby to the forum and am not in the ‘racing circle’ that I clearly must have no worthwhile opinion on racing though.
It does not matter the quality of the horse whether in a Grade one or five, it still can "bounce". Bad example Well Chief falling early at Cheltenham and not staying at Aintree.
If a horse has a hard race on his reappearance, may be a strongly run race on very soft ground. Then he is likely to bounce. If it has an easy race first time, it is likely to be o.k.
But then again, if any horse has a hard race it is likely to take time to get over it.
When a horse runs poorly on its third run we have no name to give it, if there was a name we’d probably notice it more.
Some horses are simply best fresh.Does the bounce factot exist?
Undecided, 60% of me says yes 40% says it can be put down to other factors.Value Is EverythingOh it does. Most people including racing media simply dont understand what the ‘bounce factor’ actually is.
Lay off from injury doesn’t come into it.
And you have no idea how something is proven
Oh I do and I make plenty of money from either laying bounce horses or having e/w bets around bounce horses.
The bounce factor is about muscles, simple as that. Phone a physio up and talk about the use of muscles if you dont want to take my word for it.lt is a medical fact and thats a fact.
Im sure because you have more posts than me and I am a newby to the forum and am not in the ‘racing circle’ that I clearly must have no worthwhile opinion on racing though.
Telling us you make plenty is not proof that the "bounce theory" exists, I’m afraid
Oh and btw Zoso, i’m not in any "racing circle" and treat newbies opinions the same way i treat Alan Potts, Prufrocks, Cormacks etc, etc
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.