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I don’t know why Charlton is getting abuse for sending Fair Eva to York. It got beat, simple.
It was sent off odds on, looked like winning in running and was beaten by it’s half-sister. It was hardly a disgrace.
Before it had hacked up in a six furlong race. Was it really a huge mistake running it in the Lowther?
I don’t know why Charlton is getting abuse for sending Fair Eva to York. It got beat, simple.
It was sent off odds on, looked like winning in running and was beaten by it’s half-sister. It was hardly a disgrace.
Before it had hacked up in a six furlong race. Was it really a huge mistake running it in the Lowther?
Isn’t York more of a Speed track compared to Ascot? Fair Eva had a bit of a habit of starting slow? Dettori and Moore, who rode her earlier suggest that she needed 7f ?
So the owners left it entirely up to the trainer as to where Fair Eva ran, they had no involvement in the decision?
So the owners left it entirely up to the trainer as to where Fair Eva ran, they had no involvement in the decision?
Fair point.Not sure how the Prince and Lord Grimthrope roll. They tend to have faith in their trainers though and let them make some of those decisions. Ralph Beckett was allowed to let his two year old filly (who has yet to win a maiden) run against the boys in the listed race at Newbury recently . I’d imagine that they would not dare tell Michael Stoute what to do with where the likes of Convey and Platitude run . I could be wrong of course
I don’t know why Charlton is getting abuse for sending Fair Eva to York. It got beat, simple.
It was sent off odds on, looked like winning in running and was beaten by it’s half-sister. It was hardly a disgrace.
Before it had hacked up in a six furlong race. Was it really a huge mistake running it in the Lowther?
I said weeks before the race that it looked a bad target given:-
a) Visual impression.
b) Jockey advice.
c) The Lowther is a sprinter’s race these days.If a trainer can’t see that then he’s not much cop in my opinion.
The Time Test carry on is embarrassing.
As the band America almost sang “I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no aim, it felt good to be out of the rain”
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
So the owners left it entirely up to the trainer as to where Fair Eva ran, they had no involvement in the decision?
Fair point.Not sure how the Prince and Lord Grimthrope roll. They tend to have faith in their trainers though and let them make some of those decisions. Ralph Beckett was allowed to let his two year old filly (who has yet to win a maiden) run against the boys in the listed race at Newbury recently . I’d imagine that they would not dare tell Michael Stoute what to do with where the likes of Convey and Platitude run . I could be wrong of course
Racing manager Lord Grimthorpe is Chairman of York Racecourse. Prince K horses are invariably aimed at York’s top races.
Value Is EverythingI don’t know why Charlton is getting abuse for sending Fair Eva to York. It got beat, simple.
It was sent off odds on, looked like winning in running and was beaten by it’s half-sister. It was hardly a disgrace.
Before it had hacked up in a six furlong race. Was it really a huge mistake running it in the Lowther?
I said weeks before the race that it looked a bad target given:-
a) Visual impression.
b) Jockey advice.
c) The Lowther is a sprinter’s race these days.If a trainer can’t see that then he’s not much cop in my opinion.
😆 😆 😆
Oh Steve, you’re such a hypocrite trying to take credit for what you said.
You also told us all beforehand, you’d backed Fair Eva ante-post for the Lowther @ 6/4. To back a horse @ 6/4 ante-post you’ve got to believe it around a true 50% chance if taking part. ie For it to be worth risking not getting a run for your money; injury or if connections changed their minds and thought (as some did 😉 ) the Lowther a poor choice of race. Despite “(a) Visual impression, (b) jockey advice and (c) the Lowther is a sprinter’s race these days”, YOU backed Fair Eva at a short price.“If a trainer can’t see that then he’s not much cop in my opinion”. Oh p-lease…
Yes, there were possible negatives beforehand. Yes, that includes York being more of a speed course than Ascot. But Fair Eva won so well at Ascot that if connections believed – AS YOU DID STEVE – that Fair Eva had a bloody good chance of winning a Group 2 race… Why not run? Owners/trainers don’t get many races where a two year old filly has a 50%+/fantastic chance of winning a Group 2/enhancing its paddock value. In those circumstances they’d be mad not to run. Losing the Lowther is no disaster. Fair Eva won’t have lost any of her brilliance and should still be favourite for the 1000 Guineas.
Value Is EverythingSomebody is hard of understanding here and trolling into the bargain.
I said I though the Lowther was the wrong race for Fair Eva. I didn’t say she couldn’t win it.
That’s a fact, now please accept that.
I expected that Fair Eva would run in the Lowther. I expected that she would be well odds on. I was certain 6/4 would beat SP by a mile and I was right. Who wouldn’t take 6/4 on a 4/11 shot?
Fair Eva could have won the Lowther and still have had a hard race and a detrimental effect by having to push harder to beat speedsters.
My logic is sound.
Nobody knows how this will impact on Fair Eva going forward. The early signs are not encouraging in my opinion.
Charlton has dented his own confidence in the filly, perhaps the filly feels less confident after not winning for the first time. Looks like the Moyglare is off the agenda and the Rockfel onto it and that seems a climb down in class for me.
If you want to dream that the chance is unaffected then that is fine. The fact is that the horse emerged at double the odds that she went into the Lowther. Either bookies have suddenly got generous or they feel the lustre has come off the filly to a degree.
I am less confident than I was about Fair Eva, time will tell if the Lowther was the turning point.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Stevie/Ginge – I think you can argue that a race is ultimately wrong for a horse but still believe the horse will win and then find value in the price. I just wouldn’t then castigate the trainer quite so much.
However having argued that RC should have taken the advice of Ryan Moore and brought Fair Eva along gently, you can’t really argue that he should run her over in Ireland in a Group 1 rather than stay closer to home and run in an easier race over the 1,000 Guineas course at Newmarket. Perhaps if she had won the Group 2 then a Group 1 would be the next logical step but it seems to me that the more sensible option now is to run at Newmarket.
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Stevie/Ginge – I think you can argue that a race is ultimately wrong for a horse but still believe the horse will win and then find value in the price. I just wouldn’t then castigate the trainer quite so much.
However having argued that RC should have taken the advice of Ryan Moore and brought Fair Eva along gently, you can’t really argue that he should run her over in Ireland in a Group 1 rather than stay closer to home and run in an easier race over the 1,000 Guineas course at Newmarket. Perhaps if she had won the Group 2 then a Group 1 would be the next logical step but it seems to me that the more sensible option now is to run at Newmarket.
I don’t like my horses having their sights lowered.
Fair Eva was priced in the Guineas betting as if she was clearly the best 2yo filly of the season. It’s a negative, long term, for me to see such a horse then shying away from group 1 opposition.
Looking for easier races is not a process I like for the preparation of Classic contenders. Confidence should be king.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Somebody is hard of understanding here and trolling into the bargain.
I said I though the Lowther was the wrong race for Fair Eva. I didn’t say she couldn’t win it.
That’s a fact, now please accept that.
I do “accept that”, point is you believed Fair Eva had an excellent chance of winning. No doubt Fair Eva ran because connections shared your belief… And yet you castigate connections so vehemently for running.
All this was against her:
a) Visual impression.
b) Jockey advice.
c) The Lowther is a sprinter’s race these days.If a trainer can’t see that then he’s not much cop in my opinion.
…Anyone would think it was obvious she’d get beat, but YOU thought Fair Eva had an excellent chance of winning.
I expected that Fair Eva would run in the Lowther. I expected that she would be well odds on. I was certain 6/4 would beat SP by a mile and I was right. Who wouldn’t take 6/4 on a 4/11 shot?
Fair Eva could have won the Lowther and still have had a hard race and a detrimental effect by having to push harder to beat speedsters.
My logic is sound.
Logic?
“Who wouldn’t take 6/4 on a 4/11 shot“? You weren’t taking 6/4 about a 4/11 shot. 6/4 took in to account the chance of losing your money through not running. Fair Eva has a fluent action and is thought unlikely to be as effective on a soft surface. Had the going been different you’d have probably ended up not getting a run for your 6/4 money. Same as if connections changed their minds and gone to Ireland instead. 4/11 did not have those fairly considerable doubts.If a two year old with a 4/11 chance is going to avoid a race because of the possibility of a “hard race and a detrimental effect“, there’s going to be many more two year olds missing races. Shorter a horse is in the market, the more likely a horse is of having a good chance of winning and less likely it is of having a hard race… And yet you wanted her to go for a Group 1 instead.
Nobody knows how this will impact on Fair Eva going forward. The early signs are not encouraging in my opinion.
Charlton has dented his own confidence in the filly, perhaps the filly feels less confident after not winning for the first time. Looks like the Moyglare is off the agenda and the Rockfel onto it and that seems a climb down in class for me.
If you want to dream that the chance is unaffected then that is fine. The fact is that the horse emerged at double the odds that she went into the Lowther. Either bookies have suddenly got generous or they feel the lustre has come off the filly to a degree.
I am less confident than I was about Fair Eva, time will tell if the Lowther was the turning point.
Charlton is naturally pessimistic. However, I applaud connections choice of the Rockfell. It’s probably good to go up to 7f before taking on a mile next year.
I would not say Fair Eva’s chance has been “unaffected”.
Bookmakers and punters alike take too much notice of the word “unbeaten”, particularly after such an impressive performance in the Princess Marg from a daughter of the great Frankel. That’s unbeaten factor has gone now. However, although for sure there’s less chance of being a World beater, yes a negative… At this moment in time she’s got the best chance of being the 2017 1000 Guineas winner. And there are pluses to York. When looking at the Lowther beforehand, there was a chance of a “detrimental effect” on her future. If racing too freely or showing too much speed at 6f, in which case she’d stand less chance of settling racing at the Classic distance. But that did not happen. There’s now more chance she’ll stay a mile at three purely because she settled well.You say “Nobody knows how this will impact on Fair Eva going forward“, but don’t say what possible impact York will have on her? Had she gone for the Moyglare over 7f there was a possibility of that race over an increased trip having an impact too.
Fair Eva was 4/1 and as low as 3/1 for the Guineas before the Lowther, that was probably over-stating her chance. She’s now between 5/1 and 8/1. If not already on I’d be taking the 8’s.
Value Is EverythingLooking for easier races is not a process I like for the preparation of Classic contenders. Confidence should be king.
…And yet you did not want Fair Eva to race in a race she was 4/11 fav, in case she had a hard race Steve.
Value Is EverythingLooking for easier races is not a process I like for the preparation of Classic contenders. Confidence should be king.
…And yet you did not want Fair Eva to race in a race she was 4/11 fav, in case she had a hard race Steve.
The horse doesn’t know what price She is Ginge. She is running on a fast 6f track at a speed quicker than ideal, she could win at 1/100 and still have a hard race.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
dont want to get into any rows(bit to old for all that) My take on Fair Eva was,not just the speed of the race,maybe,just maybe,she was not that comfortable on that quicker ground for a third time,just a thought
If seeing vehement criticism of a trainer, jockey, horse, or other that I believe is wrong, misinformed or hypocritical (or all three as here) then I have the right to say so Steve. You just happen to be the main culprit, probably because you’re the most prolific poster.
Claiming I want the last word in the hope of getting away with personal insults won’t wash. Once again, you’ve gone OTT with criticiam of a racing insider and can’t take criticism of that racing opinion.
Believe the rules of TRF say we should keep the talk to racing itself. If agreeing or disagreeing with any of my horse racing opinions I welcome comments, but please keep it to horse racing and stop the personal insults.
Value Is EverythingYou have more history of clashing with other forum members than me and I wonder why that might be.
You are obsessed with following me about this forum. I am sure other members can see that quite clearly.
I believe you are a flawed character with obsessive behaviour issues.
Pot calling kettle?
Perhaps members can take a look at the string of negative responses on the Arc thread after I put up Order Of St George. Even to the point of replying to a post I had clearly aimed at someone else.
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